DC Comics General

Your comment reminds me of a great gag in Astro City where a lawyer manages to get his client off the hook by arguing that he didn't actually commit a crime, it was an alien disguised as him, with the argument being that stuff like that - impersonations, mind control, etc. - happens all the time to the superheroes, so why not normal people? It's then mentioned that in the aftermath of that case, courts across the country began instituting a bunch of new laws and rulings to prevent lawyers from doing that kind of thing again.

Edited by immortaleditor on Mar 22nd 2024 at 6:34:12 AM

Does Trigon have a better record than Neron? Is Trigon considered a bigger in story threat than Neron?

Also, I might have the wrong idea, but I found the reasoning behind that brother eye mess nonsensical. Manhunter says she can get Diana cleared right away simply by showing the full, unedited footage of Maxwell Lord's death, but Diana forbids it be shown because it will just make people mistrust Superman instead of Wonder Woman...Why is that a bad thing? He's clearly being mind controlled and she's clearly stopping him, undoing the mind control before the mind controller has him kill people. People probably should trust Wonder Woman more at that point. Sure, Superman's a kind, selfless fellow, but Wonder Woman's a diplomat, an ambassador. Shouldn't she be slightly more important than he in the grand scheme of things? And if Manhunter has the full, unedited footage, why does no one else? Diana's friends with a private investigator, only one degree of separation from a computer hacker...maybe more if one counts characters from other books like Oracle.

I think there's any appreciable difference in win-losses for Trigon and Neron, but Trigon is vastly more unique-looking, more interesting, and has more history, so in that respect he's arguably winning more than Neron.

That whole plotline you're talking about was just plain dumb. Wonder Woman getting so much shit for killing Maxwell Lord in the midst of a situation where literally anyone else would've done the same was ridiculous. And than it was used to flanderize Diana into a kill-happy Blood Knight in New 52, making it even worse. All that's without getting into the stupid retcon to make Lord evil to begin with. Infinite Crisis and the events around it in general have a lot of problems; you can really tell that was the period where the DiDio rot began fully setting in.

I'm suddenly reminded of this, while I generally liked the portrayal of the Rogues in the New 52, I didn't like Golden Glider's characterization much.

Her entire dialogue is basically "My older brother is washed up, its my time now to be the leader." Its that issue with writing female characters where you want to present them as tough but you go overboard and reduce them to a tryhard repeating "I'm the boss" over and over again.

Yeah, it always reeks of tokenism, because it pretty much is. And because cases of stuff like that usually aren't that well written it ends up making the characters being pushed come off as insecure at best, assholes at worst. See the current Outsiders run and how much mockery it's rightfully receiving for having Kate go on and on about wanting to do "real good" and shitting on other superheroes while doing basically nothing of value, to the point of just kinda standing around mildly nonplussed as a gang of supervillains massacre a club full of innocents in front of her.

At least Golden Glider has the excuse of being a villain, who are generally assholes to some degree.

The Snarts always loved each other a lot afaik.

It does give her an annoying little sister dynamic.

About the only legitimacy she had as leader was the rest of the team being fed up with Leonard at the time....... Really they prolly should stop looking to the Snarts for leadership.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 22nd 2024 at 5:53:16 AM

Trigon is more of a brute force kind of guy and uses his bigger power level, while Neron is more conniving and uses manipulation. Neither are relatively weak or unintelligent, mind you

Johns jsa is still going and we see who the jsa legionaire is. its a younger mordru who wants the jsa to help redeem him like they are other villains, so he never becomes his future self

So they are really making it clear Amanda Waller is a idiot.◊ There is no way this doesn't blow up in her face.

Trigon's being real polite there.

Making a deal with the devil. That never works out well, Trigon.

That's gonna take alot of redemption

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Mar 26th 2024 at 2:22:54 PM

The most annoying part of Waller, the sheer delusional arrogance she has thinking she could beat even demon lord deities.

Would someone slap the shit out of her already?

I dunno, I'll give her some respect for standing her ground.

Arrogant as she may be, she's called the Wall for a reason.

This is a bad idea, but Trigon is coming to her, which means he might need her a bit more than he'd say out loud.

And she's at least smart enough to try and get some Betrayal Insurance. Now, I don't expect it to mean much, but she's at least aware that dealing with Trigon is not a smart move. Now she's obviously still underestimating him, which is a Lex Luthor style move if I ever saw one.

That guy thinks he can outsmart everyone. Sometimes, he's even right.

So what is Trigon's current dynamic with his daughter?

Constant reboots make it confusing and hard to follow.

Waller has tried to control people way above her weight class and had that blow up on her face. At this point, just let the other shoe drop and let her get lost in some hell dimension.

They still hate each other.

Currently Trigon is working with Raven's demon side who took over her body and wants her to fulfill her destiny of becoming the "Dadk-Winged Queen".

x3

You could say that about the whole DCU.

Well yeah, I am.

Granted, at least I can follow Batman's lore well enough. It's when I have to follow EVERY other hero that it gets confusing and makes me not want to read.

Which is why I stick to Superman silver age stories, no need for continuity there. Peak fiction.

Trigon's offer to Amanda Waller is She help him get close to and mold Raven, he convinces Raven not to destroy The Earth. The implication being Raven is going to do to the planet what she did to Tamaran regardless of his presence. Now presumably Amanda Waller still has some degree of loyalty or at least attachment to The United States. She definitely would not want this to happen, but in theory it's not the end of the line for her if worst comes to worst.

Amanda Waller is apparently the dictator of Earth 3 at the moment, which means it is remarkable she even bothers to keep showing up for work. While she probably doesn't want what Trigon is talking about to come to pass though, it literally isn't the end of the world for her, on paper. She has another one of those. One where she doesn't have to pretend to care about things like "democracy", "treaties", "borders", "oversight". I don't have DC lore on my mind all, even when actually looking at DC material, so all that "War for Earth 3" stuff went over my head. Then I remembered what Earth three is actually supposed to be and had to break it to the non believers. Amanda Waller is now a super villain and a pretty major one at that. She's not going away any time soon. It seems to me she just needs a Reed Richards/Fantastic Four...maybe a Doctor Strange as well, to frustrate her from time to time. A Doctor Doom who is as unstoppable as he claims to be gets old really fast. Maybe Trigon will prove to be Waller's Mephisto, but as we established, Neron's the used car salesmen of DC's nether worlds, so I still wouldn't count on it. It seems Waller's foils really do need to start showing up sooner than later, but that's about as good as anyone can hope for right now...

Traditionally, isn't it Darkseid or Granny Goodness who bring Amanda Waller low? I know that's Anti-Hero/Inspector Javert Waller rather than Super Villain Waller, so we're kind of in uncharted territory, but one of them can still be the Mephisto to her Doctor Doom. I know, I've made my disdain for DC's use of Fourth World clear, but I'm leaving my opinion out of it for the time being and just trying to be realistic.

Edited by IndirectActiveTransport on Mar 28th 2024 at 8:53:05 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Darkseid ended up offering Waller a job at this point.

Waller left earth-3. Someone took her from there and gave her this mission.