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MOBA into Fighting Games and vice versa:

What?
So the most famous of them all, Dot A, has its roots in an RTS, the more I thought about the genre I began picking up similarities to fighting games.

Similarities:

  • Features a diverse cast of characters
  • Gameplay emphasizes being able to anticipate an opponent's next move and to do so in a split second.

Yes I know that is a rather short list but I can easily see that a character's moves in game like Dot A or Lo L translate well into a game like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.

Likewise, games like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat have enough iconic characters with equally iconic moves or fighting style to put them in a scenario where they fight as a team rather than one on one. Of course one has to deal with cases like Ryu and Ken when making such a transition.

So anyone else see the connection?

 2 Meta Skipper, Mon, 16th Dec '13 7:15:48 AM from right behind you.... Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Your argument is invalid
See it? Yes.

Does it necessarily translate well? Maybe.
Artificial Inteligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

HvsME
 3 danna 45, Mon, 16th Dec '13 7:34:18 AM from Wagnaria Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
UNREAL BLACK THINGS
Well, the thing is that MOB As happen on a 3D plane, in which you can kinda move anywhere horizontally, and only horizontally, as you usually don't jump. Most fighting games, you're on a 2D plane, where you're moving either forward or backwards, and the vertical plane is much more important(Even more so in Melty Blood or games where you double jump). Some has you switching between planes by stepping sideways(Jojo ASB comes to mind), but overall, the basis is still moving forward and backwards on a 2D plane. That's going to be hard to transition between. Say, Ryu's Shoryuken, that has very good vertical range, but bad horizontal range, is going to be almost useless in a MOBA, as a MOBA places much less emphasis, even none, on vertical movement, and you don't even have to step backwards to avoid it, you can go left, right, or diagonal movement to avoid the Shoryuken. Or perhaps, Ashe's ultimate, which is a super-long arrow, is very useful in a MOBA's very wide field, but in a fighting game, where fields are fundamentally much smaller, it's not going to be anywhere near as effective, and then you could just jump to avoid it, or block it as you can see it coming.

I can see your point, but when we actually try to transition from one to another, it becomes very hard. I'd be interested in seeing how people might think of creative ideas to do that though.
"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue
 4 mrshine, Mon, 16th Dec '13 8:10:10 AM Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Winter's Claw
Those support and healer characters in fighting games.

Apparently Riven in Lo L was an attempt to design a moba character that felt like playing a fighting game character. She has lots of interesting combos and many more moves than most characters. Turns out having a character in a moba that can hit-stun people with combos, animation-cancel and have crazy mobility is pretty gamebreaking.

edited 16th Dec '13 8:14:28 AM by mrshine

 5 danna 45, Mon, 16th Dec '13 8:14:53 AM from Wagnaria Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
UNREAL BLACK THINGS
[up]Well er, for support characters, I'd imagine they'd be able to cast buffs on themselves that can increase their damage, speed, frame advantage, or something of the like.

Healers though...I do remember Yukiko from Persona 4 Arena, she was a healer character in the original Persona 4, and in the fighting game one of her moves consumes a bit of health to burst the enemy away, and then rapidly heals the longer you held the button, so I guess, a character who has ways to regenerate health? Yukiko was also pretty good at offense though, and in the fighting games she had a lot of range and fireballs and stuff, so for healer characters with weak offensive potential...I dunno.

And well, due to MOB As being fundamentally slower-paced, hitstun can really break a game. And considering many moves in MOB As have cooldown animation times so they can't be spammed and all, animation/frame cancel is probably also a big thing.

edited 16th Dec '13 8:17:28 AM by danna45

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue
 6 Meta Skipper, Mon, 16th Dec '13 9:22:18 AM from right behind you.... Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Your argument is invalid
There are team fighting games, so "supports" could find some more utility there.

Another point is blocking. Blocking is a critical point of fighting games; you can only sidestep or trigger immunity in a MOBA. This is why CC is so powerful in MOB As: They can't be blocked. Contrastingly, while there are indeed set-ups to reduce escape options, these are much deeper than one move.

But not too much nay-saying, now. Not gonna quite post it now, but was thinking of an Invoker-esque build for Ryu or Akuma.
Artificial Inteligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

HvsME
 7 Dragon Geyser, Mon, 16th Dec '13 12:45:39 PM from a computer, DUH.
The Chew Toy of Gaming
I do see a connection between fighting games and MOBAs, but I don't really see a direct translation either. Quite a few reasons why:

  • The main thing about playing MOBAs is that in order to win, you have to be able to work as part of a team. That doesn't really happen officially in fighting games (discounting Dramatic Battle-esque stuff, which is almost never played seriously).
  • There's a very thin execution barrier for MOBA characters' moves; just hit a button and spray doom on everything in the vicinity with the proper build and move. Fighting games? There's a reason why the most often used motion for Raging Storm-type moves is called the Pretzel.
  • Fighting games generally don't have equippable stat-affecting gear or stage hazards like MOBAs do (unless you're talking about Platform Fighters like Smash).
  • One MOBA game can last more than thirty minutes. I don't think a fighting game match has ever even gotten close to that length of time.

edited 16th Dec '13 12:46:29 PM by DragonGeyser

Lampshade Hanging: It's a lifestyle.
 8 Clarste, Mon, 16th Dec '13 2:06:19 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
Well, the thing is that MOB As happen on a 3D plane, in which you can kinda move anywhere horizontally, and only horizontally, as you usually don't jump. Most fighting games, you're on a 2D plane, where you're moving either forward or backwards, and the vertical plane is much more important

Those are both 2D planes, they're just perpendicular to each other. You're right though that the emphasis on jumping and height-based play makes it pretty hard to translate fighting games to MOBA.

What?
Gameplay is gameplay.

I know directly translating has issues, but the individual iconic moves and fighting styles of each character should provide a base to refine and develop the character for that particular genre.

 10 danna 45, Mon, 16th Dec '13 8:43:40 PM from Wagnaria Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
UNREAL BLACK THINGS
Well, if all we transfer between the genre is the iconic moves without their actual gameplay traits is not going to be much of a challenge, and in that case you might as well just create a new character and have him/her as a homage to said fighting game characters or whatnot. We should at least try to transfer over the usefulness of the original movesets over somehow. A Hadouken that becomes significantly less useful as there are now eight directions to move in(Up, down, left, right, diagonal movements) instead of just two(Forward and backwards), how do we make it still useful? I can see the Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku transfer over well, as it can have a wide-range, and is actually going to be more practical in a MOBA than in a fighting game. But still, essentially we should think of a way to transfer Hadouken and Shoryuken(The basic shoto moveset) over first. At least from a fighting game to MOBA perspective. I'm not too familiar with MOB As so can't really help with the reverse process.

[up][up]Yeah, my bad there, didn't really know what to call difference between a fighting game movement plane and a MOBA movement plane.

edited 16th Dec '13 8:56:11 PM by danna45

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue
 11 Schitzo, Mon, 16th Dec '13 8:58:48 PM from Akumajou Dracula Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
#sadboys
I could see a Beat Em Up a la DFO translating well into a MOBA format.
ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
For Fighting->MOBA: Make a MOBA with the fighting game plane? Could be 1 lane with flying/jumping units. Or sevaral parallel lanes. Or just make everyone able to float freely.

For MOBA->F Ighting: There are 3D fighting games too, you know, like Tekken, where jumping is less important AFAIK.

If an RPG like Persona4 and a Bullet Hell like Touhou can be turned into fighting games, I don't see why MOBA can't.

DOOOOOOM
[up]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=246vUH3dWqM

You reminded me of this.

Turning MOBA into fighting games should be easy. I mean, come on, it's easy to turn anything into a fighting game.

Turning a fighting game into a MOBA presents a greater challenge. The easy way out would be to make a MOBA with a fighter's vertical 2D plane.

 15 Schitzo, Tue, 17th Dec '13 8:29:56 AM from Akumajou Dracula Relationship Status: LA Woman, you're my woman
#sadboys
I'd love to see a MOBA without the RTS overhead top down viewpoint. Maybe with God Hand/ Anarchy Reigns' mechanics.
ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
 16 Meta Skipper, Tue, 17th Dec '13 9:08:46 AM from right behind you.... Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
Your argument is invalid
[up]Smite has that TPS perspective.
Artificial Inteligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

HvsME
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
Total posts: 16
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