Combat-Writing Thread

From the first chapter of Charlie Stross's The Rhesus Chart.

Fire alarm/calling bomb threat.

Damn, those are brilliant!

Anytime you have a team of assassins after you, just call in myself or Discar!

edited 27th Dec '14 6:02:21 AM by demarquis

I suppose I can always have someone to lecture assassins into submission.

If the assassins are hospital conversant, you can also probably delay them somewhat by paging Doctor Heavy or Doctor Pyro to your location; those are generally acknowledged codes used to summon security or report a small fire without causing panic.

Pull the fire alarm after paging Doctor Heavy for maximum safety. It gives them both a reason not to come near you and a reason to get further away from you.

edited 27th Dec '14 5:42:26 PM by Night

Wait, what's Doctor Heavy/Pyro?

Is that something to do with Team Fortress 2?

Nah. It's a hospital code. Hospitals will page people to locations over the PA or announce certain things. If you've ever heard "Code Blue" called for a cardiac arrest, you've heard a hospital code. They use that because fewer bystanders turn up than if they announce somebody's having a cardiac arrest.

Hospitals also use this format to announce certain events they do not want visitors (or patients in fragile condition) to know of, if only to keep them from all coming to stare. If you're ever in a hospital and you hear "Code Pink" on the PA, for example, that's an almost universal one for "missing child". "Doctor Heavy to (x)" is a reasonably common but not universal PA announcement used to call for security/inform staff of a combative patient. "Doctor Red to (x)"/"Doctor Firestone to (x)"/"Doctor Pyro to (x)" or variations on that theme for reporting a small fire are also pretty common.

To tide folks over until I can start work on that infantry combat effort post: Why Cold War Warsaw Pact Tactics Work in Wargaming. I feel it's an accessible look at the strengths of Warsaw Pact style tactics. Well worth a look, particularly as it dispels the myth of the inflexible human wave being the SOP for Eastern armies.

I would also note that there are a few things in there that are weaknesses, so keep those in mind if you want to create a group with a decidedly USSR/Warsaw Pact bent. Though it's also important to keep in mind that Western and Eastern armies were set up and operated differently, so what may look like a glaring flaw from a Western POV might not be so from the Soviet POV.

edited 2nd Jan '15 6:23:22 AM by Flanker66

Oh god, that post you linked to is amazing. I'm hesitant to stick the link in the OP since it's not strictly about depicting combat and is only about a relatively narrow slice of the subject, but it definitely got my attention.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got a Motor-Rifle brigade to drill.

Thank you!

I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't quite fulfill the needs of your average writer without a little application of lateral thought. However, I think that it's useful as a way of illustrating how to avoid making all of your near-modern/modern/sci-fi armies fall into one of two boxes: Western/NATO style high tech armies that are small in number but extremely good qualitatively, or hordes of poorly armed conscripts that drown the enemy in bodies.

That link is awesome, but the one thing I dont think those wargames reflected accurately is the Western edge in air-superiority (largely because they train US officers to plan without relying on it). But IRL those long columns of armor are sitting ducks from the air.

You'd have to factor in the ferocious Soviet air-defense efforts, too. I think the general consensus was that NATO air would be unable to achieve air dominance over all parts of the front. Airpower is devastating, but it wouldn't be so decisive as to make up for the general Warpac ground dominance.

A couple of Warthogs would have a field day with a long column of tanks and APC's. Until the Mig-29 came along, Soviet aviation sucked at air superiority.

Back in the day, I used to table-top with some guys who were big fans of Soviet style tactics. I learned to defend in depth very quickly.

Well, as I always like to explain, we actually had World War 3 in miniature once. We called it Gulf One. The training level of the Iraqi regulars obviously wasn't up to Soviet category A standards, but that of the Republican Guard was. The Soviet system produces a number of notable weaknesses that don't always translate to the tabletop regarding C3I.

edited 4th Jan '15 1:46:27 PM by Night

How often do servicemen make jokes about "butt stroking"?

I'd dispute that, since I'd argue that even the IRGC can't be rated as better than a Category-B formation. Also, on an operational level, Iraqi high command was incredibly blunderous and stupid; if Stavka had fought their war that way they'd have been deservedly purged. But, possibly a conversation for another time?

If ARRSE is any indication, "butt stroking" is what sailors do.

Well, that oft-mentioned post on combat motivation is probably suspended indefinitely. As it is, it's possible my next effortpost will be on PMCs—why they're so popular as generic enemy factions, and why that's mostly BS. tl;dr version, the model wherein a PMC can threaten a serious nation-state is completely uneconomical and unfeasible politically.

So there's basically no risk of Atlas rising up and conquering the world with an army of exo-armored mercenaries, is what you're telling me? Phew, really dodged a bullet there.

More seriously, I'd like the benefit of your expert knowledge with regard to a similarly implausible scenario. Can anyone here confidently fact-check how combat would work on the moon?

A general testing-the-waters kind of question, specific details are forthcoming if people respond in the affirmative so don't answer in-depth quite yet.

I have trouble imaging anyone being dumb enough to try small-arms combat on the moon. Basically, "air power" (well, technically "space power" or "orbital weapon platform power" but you get the idea) will dominate so much that no other form of combat would be viable. One fast moving projectile from above will destroy any base anyone could set up, so all the bases would be in orbit. Whoever wins that battle wins on the surface, by default.

Unless you mean inside a facility? Like a terror attack?

Do I have to quote Starship Troopers at you? 'cuz I will do it.

There are political, moral, and social costs involved in inflicting indiscriminate mass destruction that, since the end of World War II, no nation has really been willing to pay. The breathless proselytizers of orbital weaponry have constructed for themselves the same scenario Harry Truman and Omar Bradley did before the Revolt of the Admirals and the Korean War proved them painfully wrong about the scope of action for nuclear weapons in the real world.

The purpose of the majority of military operations is not the destruction of political, industrial, or civilian targets, but their capture or their neutralization through indirect means. (If nothing else, we usually want them for ourselves when the war's over. Craters don't make money like factories do.) Massive destruction is a means to this end, not the end itself; only one way to reach the goal and one that carries unthinkable costs. We've had nuclear weapons for a long time, and hence the ability to execute something very much like KKV strikes. We have not used them in that entire time save for twice when they were new, even in conditions that were arguably quite favorable, but we have still fought many wars.

edited 12th Jan '15 8:27:50 PM by Night

Thank you, that's an excellent contribution. Given you write about anime girls in hardsuits, I think your input might be particularly relevant.

Not an option in this case, for several reasons. I should elaborate.

The setting is inspired by XCOM and Space Westerns. A few decades in the future, Humanity has just successfully beaten back an alien invasion of Earth. During the planetary siege the aliens used the moon as a staging point and observation post- a strategic choice given that Luna is tidally locked to Earth and therefore has line-of-sight 100% of the time. Numerous munitions stockpiles and command posts dot it's surface, and given that Luna is the closest stellar body to Earth, it's the first stop on Humanity's campaign to drive the aliens out of Sol.

The general tone and feel of this 'verse is hard sci-fi, by which I mean in the vast majority of cases things actually work like they do in real life on a fundamental level. As opposed to something like Star Wars (whose militaries are armed with the entirely confusing and never even remotely adequately explained or sensibly depicted Blaster weapons technology), laser weapons fire projectiles that actually travel at the speed of light.

Lightspeed lag is an eminent practical concern when communicating over interplanetary distances, things like conservation of energy and heat debt are taken into account whereas typically they'd be ignored, the gravity and atmospheric conditions of a stellar body have adverse effects on laser and ballistic weapons through blooming and friction/bullet drop respectively. Hypervelocity projectiles interact differently with their targets than normal ballistic weapons etc. You get the point.

The one exception I make to this are plasma weapons. I'm too fond of the classic image of sci-fi plasma as a relatively low-velocity blob as opposed to the more realistic relativistic particle beam to ditch it, and it adds an interesting dynamic when deployed alongside the instant-hit lasers and medium-velocity ballistic weapons.

The goal of Human forces on Luna is to mop up what alien resistance remains and capture the various outposts, supply bases and command centers that dot the moon's surface, seizing as much of their valuable technology as possible in the process. Most such facilities have been abandoned by the time Humans arrive in Lunar orbit, the aliens having beat a hasty and disorganized retreat into the outer solar system after the destruction of their flagship and the disintegration of their command structure. In the wake of their sudden departure, an intense conflict has erupted between various corporate mercenaries, privateers and special operations groups across Luna's surface as each race to secure as much of the treasure trove of remaining alien technology as they can.

Only a handful of megacorps and national blocs can practically afford to train and equip troops for combat on other stellar bodies, as well as transport them and their equipment to the moon. Given the cost of this undertaking, none of the involved parties have any intention of destroying the technology they came so far to acquire, and at such expense. The holy grail for each of these interested factions would be discovering some technology that unlocked the secret of the alien's FTL.

No faction could afford to send large numbers of soldiers into space given numerous practical considerations such as the cost of providing life support for so many people, how difficult it would be to get a vessel large enough to hold that much personnel and equipment into space to begin with etc. Because of this, a given faction's total forces are going to be roughly battalion-strength.

Virtually all space marines undertaking moon ops are highly skilled professionals organized into QR Fs based out of motherships in Lunar orbit. These motherships form the core of small fleets, including escorts, strike craft and deployment vehicles. None are equipped with nukes or kinetic weapons sufficiently advanced to provide effective orbital bombardment. Engagements between platoon-to-company sized forces are considered large, and a total loss for one side or another could very well cripple 15-20% of a faction's operational capacity.

Apologies for wall of text. All this has been quite a long time coming, and I have a tendency to ramble. I have quite a bit more, but I think that's enough for now. I'll wait to hear feedback any of you might have on what I've written so far. I'm sure I've left you more than enough to chew over.

[Addendum]

As an aside, it always bothered me that the Halo and Warhammer 40k universes (sci-fi juggernauts that they are) both have relatively few instances of tech infantry. The regular armies of both 'verses main Human factions are shockingly primitive for the time period, both in terms of technology and combat doctrine. The UNSC's regular forces are armed with what appear to be conventional chemical slug-throwers of comparable technological sophistication to modern firearms, with very limited proliferation of man-portable gauss and laser weaponry within their infantry corps. No exoskeletons, no ADS, no gene mods and the only deployment of cyber-augmentation or powered armor among their forces are the various Spartan programs, who serve the role of special forces and number in the low hundreds at absolute most.

Meanwhile, the best Imperial Guard forces can expect to receive most of the time are lasguns- which are suboptimal for fighting in normal terrestrial atmospheric conditions for a number of reasons, among them diffraction and blooming- not to mention lasguns are consistently depicted as firing visible-spectrum red, one of the weakest wavelengths of light. The rest of a Guardsman's equipment is so laughably inadequate for combat operations in the 43rd millennium that it's become a fandom running joke how utterly useless they are.

Space Marines likewise serve the role of special forces, and they number ridiculously small for the scope of the conflicts they're involved in. If memory serves, there are no more than one million Space Marines in the entire galaxy. Space Marine doctrine is enumerated in great detail within the Codex Astartes, and the codex prescribes a standard size of no more than one thousand Marines per Chapter. Their standard armament amount to large-caliber gyroget guns, and they paint their powered armor with bright heraldric patterns.

I feel like real-life examples of upcoming technologies have the potential to be far more amazing than these supposed fantastical far-future armies. Consider the state of modern drone technology, then the fact that both the UNSC and Imperium still use manned fighter craft. Of all the factions in the 40k 'verse only the Tau, the innovative up-and-comers, have adopted drone technology for use alongside their regular forces, as well as being the only faction to use mass accelerator weapons as a part of their infantry arsenals. This is something that has always bothered me considering weapons based on magnetic attraction-repulsion seem like one of the more basic sci-fi concepts.

edited 13th Jan '15 5:38:26 AM by Gault

Not sure if sarcastic. I mean, I've never known you to be sarcastic, but...

Anyways, one awkward consideration for lunar combat is that flight, as we understand it hear on Earth, isn't possible. Without atmosphere the lift-based forms of flight we normally think of can't happen. Something that is "airborne" and is remaining airborne is in an orbit, and will maneuver like it. Most traditional forms of aerial transport or weapons platforms become considerably more limited in light of this.

You can sustain extremely fast, extremely low orbits over the lunar surface since as a constructed object the Roche limit is more of the Roche suggestion. Sustaining an orbit of about twenty kilometers is reasonably possible with modern technology. Getting lower involves using a lot of gas, and the moon is awkward about having a source of propellant to pick up while you're there.

Which brings me to another point: there's a real time-on-station issue for anyone in lunar orbit. Spending gas to move gas is really expensive and inefficient when it comes to spacecraft, and being military they'd want the option of retreat anyways (particularly since they're relatively expensive in the first place). They might rotate back to Earth orbit regularly for resupply while someone else rotates in or there might be a long (and relatively vulnerable!) supply chain to keep them in Lunar orbit. However, people will thus pay close attention to fuel figures, both their own and their enemies'. Remaining fuel effectively defines how many deployments you can make, and of what. Spacecraft engineering is very much about tracking the exact amount of weight you need to move so you can determine exactly how much fuel that requires.

Not sarcasm, just unusual phraseology. I say this because many of the technologies you put effort into describing will likely be relevant to this kind of combat. Don't know why you'd think I was being sarcastic, it's not like I hate you or anything.

Anyway, thank you Night, this is new information. My area of focus had mostly been on the specifics of infantry combat, though being an aviator it only makes sense you'd focus on strike craft. I was originally under the impression that due to the moon's 1/6th gravity strike craft and close-air support could loiter around the combat area almost indefinitely while burning only a negligible amount of fuel. I had already put together that in the absence of atmosphere strike craft would be more lumbering compared to the nimble movement of fighter craft on Earth, but outside of that the details escaped me. More on this would be good. I suppose this would mean that air strikes and close-air support have a very limited window?

Semi-related, I had given the subject of missile weapons some thought and long since realized conventional guided munitions wouldn't work on a planet with no atmosphere. So instead, strike craft pack the significantly more expensive Vectored Propulsion Rockets, more colloquially known as Vipers. They're a kind of smart missile with directional thrusters to control their precise trajectory.

The time-on-station issue is also something I had not considered, but I think it's very interesting and something I can work with. It might well be the case that this is a large part of why the various factions are motivated to be so aggressive. If their mission has a limited window, they're going to want to grab as much tech as they can as quickly as they can. However, if fuel limits the number and type of deployments they can undertake they'll also need to be strategic in their choice of what targets to pursue. A lot of potential here.

The more I describe this, the more it's starting to sound like a game mechanic. A good one too. I suppose that's a bit of it's XCOM heritage shining through.

New idea: what do you think of the idea of Earth launching supply packages at the moon at regular intervals that the fleets can pick up? Another thing for the factions in orbit to fight over in order to extend their operational timetable. More fuel means more operations to grab more loot.

It seems like the supply packages would have their own escorts, and not be launched if it's not known who gets them. Otherwise, it'd be the equivalent of the US sending an unescorted resupply of Liberty ships out to the middle of the North Sea and waiting for the Royal Navy and the Kriegsmarine to fight it out for them.

OK, now that I have that context, I can address your question more effectively. The scenario you describe is a real nightmare- like taking Stalingrad, only surrounded by hard vacuum. In some cases, where the aliens are dug in and prepared to fight to the end, it may be impossible to take the base without destroying it.

Regardless, I still wouldnt send in humans with guns. Robots would be far better- mini-drones armed with small explosives to blow themselves up when the get close to the opposition. The advantage is that you can insert them anywhere you can penetrate the base perimeter- and then let them spread out to search for the enemy. Other options are chemical attacks (assuming the aliens breath), using a directed energy weapon to heat the base to a dangerous level, ultra sound through the ground, or siege.

Basically, your CAS is going to have to launch weapons on data about the battlefield it's received while it was below the horizon. Good comms and good forward observers will be essential. Given the more limited nature of an orbital path, it's also in relatively more danger if people are alerted to its coming...although you would need automated systems to engage it while it crossed overhead, because it's going to be in view for very little time. It's very fast, but it's moving in a very straight line for the most part.

You really can't stay that low for long, if only because moving at that speed that close to the ground is asking to plow into a mountain. It'll also burn a lot of fuel getting down and fast, and then up and slow again. In a lot of ways the only real, sustainable airstrike option will be a dropship deploying weapons before it lands with reinforcements or supplies. Once a dropship is on the ground, it probably won't take off again until the mission is over unless there's an extremely high chance it'll be lost if it doesn't; again, to conserve on fuel.

From an infantry standpoint the main awkwardness is that it's hard to move around under lunar gravity quickly without significant training that can only be undertaken with lunar gravity. You'd see a very definite veteran advantage as people make friends with their environment and get used to doing things like running under lunar conditions; this would, awkwardly, coincide with their probably being there long enough they'll never be able to fully adapt to Earth conditions again.

There will be a lot of corridor fighting, which tends to favor the people with the individually best equipment and heaviest armor. You should also consider whether most of it will be above-ground (in which case there may be considerations about weapon use and accidentally breaching exterior bulkheads; even if your people are in environmental gear, the tech you came for may not react well to sudden vacuum exposure), or underground (most plans for Lunar colonies have suggested that the majority of living and working spaces would be buried under five to ten meters of dirt to protect them from cosmic radiation over the long term; now you're worried about accidental cave-ins but you get to use the full metal jacket ammo at least).

edited 13th Jan '15 3:15:44 PM by Night