Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
In light of what's happening, are the Ukrainians continuing the offensive or not?
A procrastination in of itself
Care for some links to (reasonable mainstream respected) western media doing this? Because the media I've been reading has made no such claims, so far all I'm seeing is "Putin gave the rebels the weapons so he bares some responsibility for what they did with them", which is hardly characterising him as a Bond Villain. Now if media is claiming Putin gave a personal order for the rebels to shoot down the plane (knowing it was a civilian one) than yeah that's crazy, but I haven't seen any such claims being made in the media I've been following.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
I was going more by what they imply more than anything else. The way they state facts (or alleged facts, as I still have not seen proof outside only the US government that Putin gave the weapons to these guys versus them nicking it from somewhere) when added to their opinion pieces (which, in televised news, takes up majority of prime time air and thus gets more exposure than the mere facts), creates the "Putin is Blofeld" meme.
Western coverage of what's going on in Ukraine has essentially been the same as their coverage in Georgia back in 2008.
A procrastination in of itself
That's a fair point.
I was 15 back then so I'm afraid I don't remember what the coverage was like, though I have noticed while going over the facts after that there are similarities that could (and should) be explored between how Russia acted in Georgia and how NATO acted in former Yugoslavia.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
People have been calling Putin a Bond villain for years.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
A procrastination in of itself
Largely for comedic value though, Putin gets called a bond villain a lot because it's rather funny.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
HGW XX/7
The thing is, "Putin-as-Blofeld" isn't far from the public image he deliberately cultivates, which is of "Putin-as-Stirlitz". It's not just a case of Western media building a villain where none exists; United Russia's propaganda Gone Horribly Right is just as, if not more, to blame than the likes of Bild and the Daily Heil.
edited 22nd Jul '14 4:12:46 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
V
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hopefully without certain narration. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
HGW XX/7
Speaking of spies, our beloved Prime Minister seems to have found his courage pills. We're finally getting a public inquiry into the ex-KGB defector Alexander Litvinenko's death by polonium poisoning, and the UK is pushing for harder Russia sanctions over MH17's shootdown.
Corpses arrived safely in Kharkiv. Malaysian security officials went with the train with the corpses to arrive in Amsterdam this Wednesday.
Putin has released statements saying that he'll do everything he can to make the separatists talk to Kiev.
Radical Moderate
@Hallow Hawk: Yes, the Ukrainian offensive is continuing. There was some serious street fighting yesterday on the edges of Donetsk, around the train station. Today, the Ukrainian army seems to have retaken the town of Severodonetsk (which has no connection to Donetsk, and is in fact located in the far north of the rebel-held territory).
Also, Lugansk is all but surrounded.
In other news, the EU is meeting to discuss further sanctions against Russia. Reportedly, France is prepared to cancel its future sale of a carrier ship to Russia — although another one that has already been paid for is still expected to go through.
edited 22nd Jul '14 8:56:28 AM by BokhuraBurnes
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
First signs of Possession by Churchill?
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
A NATO country that signed a deal to sell an aircraft carrier to Russia, which used to be the Red Scary freaking Dirty Communist Reds With Rockets Soviet Union, out of all people? My God, what a political Idiot Ball. *doh face*
edited 22nd Jul '14 1:02:51 PM by FluffyMcChicken
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Well Russia doesn't really have any carriers.
Their only carrier thinks it's actually a missile boat
Oh really when?
HGW XX/7
MH17: my error of judgment, by Sky News reporter.
Colin Brazier, the Sky News reporter who rummaged through an MH-17 victim's luggage, writes in the Guardian about how sorry he is. It's actually quite good.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
A procrastination in of itself
X3, It's a hello carrier not an a fixed wing aircraft carrier.
Edit: No wait it's not even fully that, it's an Amphibious Assault Ship.[1]
edited 22nd Jul '14 2:27:33 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
V
@ Fluffy: The French will generally sell to anyone, as long as they have the money.
Keep Rolling On
A procrastination in of itself
Plus it's a ship, Russia is rather short on possible targets for navle invasion, most of their neighbours are either A: Landlocked, B: NATO, C: China & North Korea, or D: Someone they've already successfully invaded (Ukraine and Georgia). In fact the only countries that don't fit into the listed grounds are Syria and Iran (Russian allies) and Finland and Sweden.
though that does raise the question of why the Russians want an amphibious assault ship...
Best Of... You might wana be ready to run if you live near the coast...
edited 22nd Jul '14 3:38:06 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Because the Soviet era equipment has to be retired and it's always useful for a major power to have amphibious capabilities.
A procrastination in of itself
I know, it's the same reason they have an aircraft carrier, because it's a nice thing to have and big powers don't feel like big powers unless they've got big weapons to show off.
I figured I'd just have a bit of fun suggesting Finland was about to be invaded. 
edited 22nd Jul '14 3:41:39 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
HGW XX/7
EU announces more sanctions on Russia.
They do not affect the French carrier sale.
edited 22nd Jul '14 3:58:00 PM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
The rebels have shot down two government warplanes, no news about the crew.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/2-ukraine-fighter-jets-shot-down-by-pro-russian-rebels-1.2715224
Interfax says that according to Zorian Shkiriak (advisor from the Ukrainian ministry of the interior), Putin is finally washing his hands of the separatists due to the plane shootdown and ordered that Strelkov, Bezler and Bolotov are to be shot if they try to enter Russia (Boroday is an exception, he'll probably be hired as a political advisor by the Kremlin). Separatists are now not allowed to cross the border anymore and according to Shkiriak, several have been shot already for trying.
edited 23rd Jul '14 5:30:34 AM by amitakartok
Grieving father of MH17 victim pens open letter to Putin
.
I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.