The Brazilian Politics Thread

Well, they were in the streets, in a protest we know the police is being violent. Of course we are worried.

He just called. He is fine, thanks.

Police in Rio shooting rubber bullets and tear gas towards a hospital that was taking care of at least 62 protesters hurt in confrontation with the police. And then trying to invade the hospital to apprehend people who were taking shelter inside.

If this was a war, that would've been a war crime, right? I guess we hit a new low.

There were also about 700 people trapped inside two buildings of the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro in fear of being arrested for arbitrary reasons by the police outside.

edited 20th Jun '13 10:00:13 PM by runoeddie

Yes. I've been seeing multiple accounts and videos of random violence from the police, but shotting and invading an hospital is, indeed, a new low. Hope everyone there is okay.

Oh and the police apparently declared they never sieged said universities. Despite multiple accounts of contrary. It is a joke.

It's normal for the police to deny stuff they've actually done, mate. <_< By the sound of things, everything is broken up into pockets: that's actually good for mass survival, you know. And, shows... that, frankly, these guys are amateurs at riot control the deadly way.

As long as the tanks and mobile infantry are not rolling and funnelling people into a single block for dispersal, you're fine. <shudders>

The riots are mostly the police fault, anyway. It is still unclear who started the confusion at the city hall*

, but the random acts of violence across the city is what made the confusion to spread.

As I said, me and my friends walked a couple of kilometers away from the path of the protests. We dropped by to eat some and rest and everything was fine. Some of the protesters were coming there to get away from the confusion, but most of the people were locals. And, yet, the police came blocking some streets and scaring people. Then went and exploded gas bombs were people were just walking by or drinking. We and my friends went away quickly, but I know someone who got trapped there. Eventually the police started shotting and people had to hide in bars or other buildings. Again, this was kilometers away from were the protesters were, this was were people was just living their lives like normal. And, yet, the police came and pretty much incited the violence, by literally shooting first. Obviously, I doubt this was the only place where such thing happened.

So, yeah, they do suck at crowd control. They suck so much they helped to spread the confusion by inviting unrelated people to the angry crowd.

Sounds about right. <sighs>

If in doubt, increase the protesters by creating more from a random crowd by firing rubber into it or trying to gas people. <slow-claps>

Seriously: you only bring the bullets, water canons and the gas out when riot shields fail and/or you see machetes, petrol bombs or machine guns in the groups of protesters. Any idiot knows this. You just make more protesters if you break out the tear gas early. <face-palm>

And, you don't use the bullets at all if all they're doing is waving placards. <_<

@Gaon and Heatth: Good thing your friend and brother are okay

I'm thinking about going to a protests, but my parents won't let me because it's dangerous. Also if I were to go I'd prepare myself in the craziest way possible (gas masks, vinegar, maybe pans, etc.)

My sister went see the protests here yesterday, she evn took pictures, it was mostly peaceful though.

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

I'm going again tomorrow. This time, I'll try to stay as long as possible, with a group of friends. What will it take for the people at the congress to even acknowledge the protests and say something about them? The way they despise the population is baffling.

"You cannot judge a system if your judgement is determined by the system."

Isn't there a Special Cabinet Meeting?

Keep Rolling On

Is there now? I must have missed that one XP

"You cannot judge a system if your judgement is determined by the system."

Yesterday the protest were just next to my "cursinho" (is there a translation to that?) so I kinda attended the event, wanting or not. It looked more of a party than a a actual protest, this has me worried, I hope this is the last time I see this. Some people attacked PT militants who showed up there without provocation. Freedom of speach, anyone?

Am I the only one fearing this might end up badly? Like someone worse coming to take the power? I just heard that the Brazilian Military Party wants to have Joaquim Barbosa as their candidate for President next year… I really hope it's just me, because I don't want face a dictatorship, I don't want to know exactly what the characters of my novel face and feel everyday…

"......Huh?" Myself, 2014.

Every revolution is a opportunity for something worse taking hold of the state, it's life. But at the same time, every revolution is also a opportunity for something better taking hold of the state.

And that's why we can't just revolt and burn everything down, we must also help to rebuild the country if this revolution succeeds.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Let me just express my admiration and respect for those of you who are going out and participating in the protests. I also want to say thank you for posting here and keeping the rest of us informed regarding the truth of what is happening. You guys walk the walk.

Cool, the more the better, after all. I would recommend against gas mask, though, unless you are looking for trouble. No better way to make you look suspicious. The police may be being arbitrary, but they will certainly target first the ones that look the part, if they can identify them.

Really? I didn't know that. Though I suppose it'd be good to take them to put them on and hand to others in case they are needed.

That express my opinion on the people who have gone so far, as I haven't. You guys are great, doing this for our country and all.

In other news, I am seeing more and more rumors that many of the protesters who started the confusion were, in fact, agents infiltrated to make the protest look bad. It is hard to tell fact from fiction, but I am surprised to how frequent they are becoming.

Oh, as for "someone worse" taking power. Yeah, there have been some rumors about another military coup. But this seems like alarmists thing. The world context is a completely different one now. It is not that simple.

edited 21st Jun '13 8:44:20 AM by Heatth

You can make a gas mask from a plastic bottle and a surgical mask.

The downside, of course, is that it doesn't look as cool as a proper mask.

Personally, were it me, I'd take a bandanna that has been soaked in lemon juice or vinegar. Even having a gas mask is likely to antagonize the police, and you don't want to give them more reason to attack or arrest you than they otherwise would have.

edited 21st Jun '13 8:46:42 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

That gas mask only looks more suspicious than the regular mask I've seem in the protests. You can't even easily hide it if you want to.

But, yes, such bandana seems a good idea. Useful, and you can hide in a pocked once you are away from the main confrontation. I do plan on taking something like that myself next.

The point is that you can quickly cut the bottle into the right shape if things get hairy.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

I don't think it is that easy to cut a bottle in half once the confusion start. But, sure, I will keep that in mind, thanks.

Do you think swimming glasses could protect you from the gas?

What about pans? In case of danger they could either use it as a shield (though it looks very suspicious) or put one of those gas bombs inside the pan, or just throw the pan over it to reduce the gas amount that escapes.

They do seem useful. But, again, suspicious.

Anyway, I am not really used to this kind of protests, nor do I plan on actually be in the main confrontation areas, so I am not the best person to give advice. All I can say is: try to be the last suspicious as possible, if you don't want trouble.

Now, if you do plan on taking the fight. Well, ask someone else. I can't help much there.

I'm against any type of fighting in manifestations save self-defense ones.

So am I. But there is two kinds of self defense too.

There are who say that, once they throw the first stone*

we should try to go away first. And only fight back if they give us absolutely no other chance.

And then there is who say that once the first stone is thrown, we should not shy away and go forward. To show they can't scare us. To show we ares stronger than they are.

I find both positions valid, really. But, frankly, I am in the first group. And people like me is not as likely to be trapped on where the repression is really bad. The less suspicious we look, the better. For the other camp, however, even if they are not actively looking for confusion, practicality trumps safety. These people plans to go to the "front lines", if only to allow the others to get away*

. For them, a more proper "equipment" is necessary, even if it makes them look suspicious. And it is not like they are trying to hide, anyway.