Puʻu ʻŌʻōI am somewhat losing track as to how we want to define the trope this thread is tagged on.
I think Bested At Bowling should be cut. I Was Beaten By A Girl should stay as a trope including both examples from fights and games as the reasons and end result are the same. I would be okay with a split based on execution of I Was Beaten By A Girl as suggested by an earlier post.
Not quite the same. I Was Beaten By A Girl often includes the reveal that Samus Is a Girl; Bested At Bowling doesn't.
That only applies to some of the examples. Actually reading trough them shows what there isn't much of a distinction. Maybe I Was Beaten By A Girl could be split, but again, that's another discussion.
edited 23rd Jun '13 9:14:14 AM by MikuruFan
No, the other one."Often includes" means it's not part of the definition, just a common way to play it. And it often isn't really all that often.
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Seems like we're losing track on what to do. Three tropes are involved: Bested At Bowling, I Was Beaten By A Girl, and Bowling For Ratings. Whether Bested At Bowling is a valid trope based on that they are relatives or it is about games, while I Was Beaten By A Girl is about strangers or about fights is also brought up. There's also the issue of how I Was Beaten By A Girl is played. Bowling For Ratings' relationship with Bested At Bowling, making Bowling For Ratings more common, is also something to be discussed. The tropeworthiness and status of Bowling For Ratings is also brought up.
edited 12th Jul '13 6:33:17 AM by MikuruFan
My counter proposal in Post #15 of this thread was a merge-then-resplit. The core of the proposal is that it's not so much where the defeat happens or even the relationship between the actors, (as the Tropes are currently partitioned, ) it's how (or whether) the defeat impacts the defeated party. In fact, I already have a Laconic comparison in that post, which I shall repeat here with clarifications in parentheses:
Type I: Defeat as Resolution (no existential conflict involved)EDIT: Bowling For Ratings is synonymous with "Bowling Episode". The only way that Trope is connected to this conversation is the common setting between the two instances.
Type II: Defeat as Confrontation (the defeated makes the defeated party confront his own ego and insecurity)
edited 12th Jul '13 11:39:25 AM by DonaldthePotholer
Bowling For Ratings as "bowling happened this episode" doesn't seem like a trope to me. What DOES seem tropeworthy is the idea that bowling is middle-class, so the Everyman (or, in Dexter's case, the guy posing as the Everyman) goes bowling. On a related note, that could put some meaning into Bested At Bowling since it has blue collar connotations.
I feel like some of the examples on Bested At Bowling could be moved to I Was Beaten By A Girl, and then Bested At Bowling needs to be rethought (maybe sent back to YKTTW). I feel like there's a distinction. Bested At Bowling seems like a stock plot usually involving an aesop about a sexist or simply arrogant character playing in some sort of sport (often bowling because of Bowling For Ratings) and freaking out about being Beaten By A Girl or someone else they underestimated for shallow reasons. They don't always learn their lesson, but the point is about them being prejudiced and ultimately getting humbled. As for the other topics, I also agree that Beaten By A Girl should be the main name while I Was Beaten By A Girl should get moved to the redirect. Bowling For Ratings does seem like it could be a thing to me, if it is a go-to sport because ease of production and connotation, but the examples need to make it clear that's why they're listed. The ones with no explanation aren't very useful.
edited 13th Jul '13 3:28:25 AM by Jokubas
To get things going again, I created a page action crowner here. I hope I didn't create it too early.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
I'll go through what opinions we have and add them.
Thanks. What do we do with the issue of renaming? Do we deal with it afterwards?
Puʻu ʻŌʻōAye. No prob at having a definition crowner before the rename crowner.
Redefine is at 8:1
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
zzz...Yeah, I think it's safe to call it.
I think it's still too low. 15 is the number I usually see around here.
11.00 : 1 sounds clear to me.
Puʻu ʻŌʻō12 sounds too little to me.
Any more votes?
Redefining has 15 supports and 1 oppose, a score of 14.
Redefining the tropes mean they have to be renamed as well. What do we do now?
Anime-tedI Was Beaten By A Girl could be Climactic Underdog Victory or something along those lines. Not sure what Bested At Bowling could become.
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