Domhain Sceal 2nd Edition

Okay that's cool, I like that.

Once we get all of these ideas together we need to write them up in a coherent manner somewhere.

Also, we mentioned Ascension in the last edition, when a Terrestrial God becomes something like unto a Celestial God. Essentially, their high soul moves on while their low soul become complex entity much like a Celestial God. It's why Ascended Gods are, personality wise, shells of themselves.

And, although the difference between a beast/Celestial God and a mortal is the presence of a high soul, perhaps the difference between a high soul and a low soul may become a matter of gradient if you start digging through someone's soul.

I say the damage of the soul when extracting energy through it happens because the soul would act as a "pipe" which magic pass through, and using it as a magic source is like stretching said pipe until it breaks.

I'm not sure I like the idea of Terrestrial Gods. I see why and how a God would raise a mortal to a god-liky level of power. Maybe very powerful, but not god-like. Then again, in classical mythology we have Hercules (I forgot how to spell his name the other way), whether he does or not count. As for whether Celestial Gods should or not have soul, I say they are amorphous energy beings who can take any shape they want, so in essence their body is their own soul. Since they are their own soul, and their magic is themselves, I say their powers affect their own way of thinking.

I like the idea of body as soul for gods, but I like to keep the idea of terrestrial gods, I'm not sold on ascension though if a terrestrial god gets celestial level of power that shouldn't make them a celestial god. That should be reserved for those who come out of the aether originally.

edited 1st Jun '13 3:58:49 PM by Vyctorian

Well, Celestial Gods are ideas. The idea is Terrestrial God's 'Ascension' is wherein they just die and leave behind the idea of themselves.

I think we need to ditch the gods as ideas concept, ideas are too massive and too subjective to have defined creatures attached to them.

Alright. What do you propose?

How do exactly Terrestrial Gods work? I got this idea (after reading some stuff in the Nasuverse wiki, but I didn't really understand much of what it was talking about because I don't play/read/watch whatever that series is) that powerful heroes wouldn't just die and follow the normal circle of life and death. Instead, they would go to some sort of Valhalla-like place where they could rest and enjoy eternal life, but in exchange mortals would be able to ask for their help or something.

Also I found interesting the way legendary weapons work, which I'm not sure I understood, but apparently if people believe you can do 'X' you get said power. I found it could work in an interesting way given how Aether works in here. Of course, I'm not sure how to pull it off yet, so an insight on it would be good, I guess.

I'd say let's revamp everything that is confusing and forget about the old edition.

The Terrestrial Gods that I mention works more like Exalted where people are chosen by Celestial Gods who are an aspect of reality and a facet of the world's personality where they get their portfolios from. If that's the direction we're still going for.

@ Vyc: Plenty of myths and legends have elementals and creatures that are personifications of ideas and concepts. The idea behind Celestial Gods is that it is up to the GM to interpret those Gods and give them something to make their game unique. Otherwise you end up with the Forgotten Realms problem where G Ms are forced to follow the "canon" in the setting too much and it becomes running somebody else's game.

edited 2nd Jun '13 5:01:52 PM by IraTheSquire

I have this idea of there having some gods who look like more of a "race" or group of brings with massive (say, city-wide) powers but aren't as numerous as mortals. They live in cities/groups called "Pantheons" and are worshiped by mortals. There are, though, embodiments of natural concepts and stuff, and those are the gods these gods worship.

Anyways, about the idea I had earlier: when an heroic mortal dies, a/the god/s usually offer/s him or her the chance of spending the afterlife in a Valhalla-like place, at the costs of: 1) when the gods and/people request, the hero would go fight/reincarnate/advise/whatever (and depending on the task, get the chance to "die" for real as a prize); 2)Taking only some of his/her weapons and magical items along. Why wouldn't he or she take everything along? They could be left behind for one's family or nation, or even to a god's followers. The ones taken along get a massive boost in power, while the ones left behind are turned into conceptual items that change based on the legends about it, surviving eternally at the cost of normal people's innate magic, instead of a god's or something else. So, while some items could be found in the world with powers different from the original ones, others would be harder to get and since we're unaffected by legends, would work differently than expected. What do you think?

I've always liked the idea of there being a canon and canonical gods, events, nations if someone doesn't want to use our canon they can go make their own campaign setting but in order to be campaign setting you need a canon.

I'm also not forgetting the old edition, this revamp is always going to be just that a revamp and you can't revamp something if you forget what it is you're revamping. :p

I like this.

edited 2nd Jun '13 6:46:47 PM by Vyctorian

I'm warming up a little more to their being set Celestial Gods from the World Loci. But, perhaps a cycle? The mortals affect the World Loci which affects the Celestial Gods which affect the mortals

I approve.

Say, the World Loci is omniaware but not necessarily All-Knowing. It learns by observation. It learns hate, it learns love, it learn honor and betrayal and war and mercy from watching us and as those concept form in it, so to do gods.

That works. Actually, that's a very nice touch to the concept.

There is a balance though. You cannot go all the way and make canon so over-reaching that there is nothing for the GM to interpret. Again, the Forgotten Realms problem. To put it in the other way: if the GM can just "go and make their own campaign setting", why should they bother reading any of our stuff at all?

edited 2nd Jun '13 11:21:25 PM by IraTheSquire

Because not everyone wants to do the grunt work of building a campaign setting, not all GM's are creative; some are just technical. It's the same reason why some people build and paint models and paint them by the numbers instead of sculpting and going whatever colors they want. Or why do people play linear video games.

Plus Forgotten Realms is very popular and around still so it can't be that big of a problem.

edited 2nd Jun '13 11:47:40 PM by Vyctorian

Forgotten Realms is still around because 1) it's one of the oldest Dn D settings and 2) the novels. The actual role-playing side is actually not very popular. In fact, when I ask around actual role-players they all loath the setting, because they all feel like playing as sidekicks to NP Cs like Elminister. There is a very good reason why White Wolf abandoned Old World Of Darkness and started the New World Of Darkness with its toolbox approach to things (though be fair, I think they went a bit too far on the "making everything as vague as possible" pendulum). And all your examples are people who are not role-players, and for miniatures plenty of people go for making and painting their own miniatures.

Also, popular does not mean flawless and good.

Besides, I'm not saying "no canon", I just saying there should be a balance between "completely vague and up to GM's discretion" and "All canon, G Ms must follow everything to the letter". Both extremes are bad.

edited 2nd Jun '13 11:59:56 PM by IraTheSquire

Now the world absolutely bristles with magic, as the wall between the Ethereal and the Material is thin enough to allow it.

Questions that can be asked but I feel should not be answered:
- Is the barrier thin because the World Loci is there or is the World Loci there because the barrier is thin?
- Is the whole universe like this or is this just a local thing? How local?
- Is the world therefore the factory of everything's magic or merely the inventor? Can mages continue maging away from the planet?

edited 3rd Jun '13 12:26:00 AM by God_of_Awesome

That last bit, I support that though I am more on the side of a fixed canon, or more like a "fixed points in time" type of canon. Certain events, figures, and elements are fixed while others are vague and open to the GM and players to bounce around in the fix points acting as the walls to this pinball machine.

Another question which I'd like to ask but answer even if vaugely is what do we do about space, moons, and such how do they factor in and how are they affected by all this. Even if no aspects of the campaign take place there.

edited 3rd Jun '13 12:40:12 AM by Vyctorian

And that's what I was going for with Celestial Gods too. Say (for example: not really going to suggest this is the case) Chloe is the goddess of nature: what is canon is that there is a Celestial God of nature named Chloe. But what would a personification of nature be like? What counts as nature in the first place? All those things is up to the GM to decide. There's no canon for both those questions because "nature" is too complex a concept to have just one interpretation, so it will be up to the GM (and players).

Really? I thought that what you said we would determine, the GM would, and what you said the GM would determinate, we would.

1)The World Loci is there because of the thin magical barrier, but there's also another reason because; 2) The whole universe isn't like this. What lets the World Loci be like what it is the soulful life that inhabits it; 3) Short answer: no, long answer: maybe. I see mages as beings that usually cast by draining the magic from around them, as opposed to others who cast through other means (I'm too lazy to list them right now), and while they technically would be able to use a celestial body's energy while being there it isn't a naturally flowing energy, or just doesn't have the same flowing strength as Earth (or however it was called, it's too early in the morning for me to remember). This doesn't mean other planets wouldn't have some powerful magic flow in/on/at them, only that there would be a large amount of living beings on it.

That's the opposite of what I've been saying. The Goddess of Nature and God of Disasters are just examples to illustrate the concept of "Celestial Gods as facets of the World's personality" as opposed to concrete examples that are actual suggestions.

edited 3rd Jun '13 7:40:23 AM by IraTheSquire

I had thought what you were saying was something like: there is a Goddess of X and her powers work like XX. Now, if you are too lazy or don't have the skills, her name is XXX and the way she interacts with mortals is XXXX.

I was gonna leave those questions unanswered on purpose.

Edit: The original idea for Celestial Gods, though, was that the Ether was the realm of the mind and because we tended to personify things as well as classify idea, so to did the Ether personify ideas we classified.

Thing is, I personally think both ideas work and will go along with the World Loci creating gods by learning from us idea, I liked that original idea more since it involved less... is 'agency' the right word?

edited 3rd Jun '13 10:20:24 AM by God_of_Awesome