Privacy, Government, Surveillance, and You.

50 miles into a forest, I bet your IR signature really stands out.

Um. In overcrowded Britain, you're rarely very far from overlooking windows as it is. <_< I guess that makes a major cultural difference. <shrugs> "Alone" is something you rarely get out and about as it is, cameras notwithstanding.

edited 7th Jun '13 11:45:57 AM by Euodiachloris

That people can be conditioned be okay with government intrusion is precisely what they want. And like I said, history has already proven that once the government goes too far, you can start the clock running on the collapse of that given society.

It was an honor

Um... you do realise that government isn't automatically out to get you, right? -_-

Of course not Euo. I'm reasonably certain the first German socialists just weren't fans of the Weimar, they weren't thinking "Let's find an eloquent, slightly cartoonish madman with self-esteem issues to whip up the populace into mass genocide."

It was an honor

About that slippery slope thing...

An innocent person's life isn't any less permanently damaged if it's "by accident". Bureaucracies, being what they are, can't and don't concern themselves with such things.

To be clear, I'm rather on the fence about the whole issue. I just felt that was worth playing devil's advocate for.

edited 7th Jun '13 12:22:21 PM by Robotnik

That's you guys, it's all up in your grill and you don't have a choice. I think that sucks, if you just get by and it doesn't bother you, that's cool.

But I like knowing I'm not being videotaped everywhere I go, I don't like the feeling that I'm being spied on.

If the government is not out to get us, then let them make all their own policies and efforts as transparent as they want our lives to be. Let them show us that they're doing only the right, honest, decent things with the information they have.

...but no. For us, supposedly 'if we've done nothing wrong, we have nothing to hide', but oh, the government still needs to hide all its activity from 'the terrorists' in order to 'keep us safe'. It's not just hypocritical, it's downright orwellian and dangerous.

Join my forum game!

Well said Meklar. Well said.

It was an honor

@ Euo: As You Know, there is no such thing as "50 miles into a National Forest" in Britain — we're not that big. Even in the most remote parts, they'll be a settlement, a farm, perhaps an hour or two away at most. In most places it is a lot closer.

And more then that, Britain does not have the Culture of Individualism that the US has. It never really has, since Britain is smaller than most US States, almost certainly a lot smaller than California.

Keep Rolling On

Not to mention it's a shitload easier to avoid doing anything wrong out of ignorance if you know what's considered "wrong" in the first place. But no, they can't do that.

And I'm not even that afraid of just being watched; if I have no cause to fear it, it's as good as not being watched at all. What I'm afraid of is people banging on my door and turning my life upside down because of it.

edited 7th Jun '13 2:37:24 PM by Robotnik

Well, that's the thing about living practically on top of each other: if the government oversteps... somebody else will probably have noticed. And, will likely leak it to the press in some shape or form. <shrugs>

And, if they don't, well... the paper and video trail will still be around years later to be picked up and grilled. Hillborough showed that. And, the Jimmy Savile scandal.

That's not a help for everybody, but... it's better than nothing.

I think you are overstating British lack of concern, Euo, considering it was the Guardian that broke the story. Seriously, the fact that the US government agencies are likely keeping track of your communication doesn't bother you at all, considering that they don't answer to you?

The Guardian is trying, increasingly and annoyingly, to move into the US market because it is running out of cash. In essence, the print edition loses £100,000 a day, and the current helmsmen see a digital switch as the only way to remedy this, along the lines of Huff Po. Trouble is, Huff Po gets a lot of traffic from its showbiz news, which the Guardian is rubbish at.

EDIT: And if you are pissed off, write to POTUS. He might even read it.

edited 7th Jun '13 3:23:16 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Much like The Daily Mail, The Guardian isn't representative of every Brit, either.

I give it six months until Obama's Orwell Patrol start jumping out the windows in suicidal anguish from having to deal with the inanity of most of America.

Oh, Obama. You thought there'd be sedition everywhere, but mostly your poor security officers will be subjected to the meaningless drivel of Twitter's Bieber Fever and remarks about Kim and Kanye.

I await your descent into Macbeth like madness, sir. You brought this on yourself. You validated the egomaniac hubris of the American animal.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears

Two Articles on the subject from The BBC:

Terror watch lists: Can you keep tabs on every suspect?

Prism: Just how much do the spooks know?

Keep Rolling On

I just don't understand why everyone thinks "Yep we're turning into Nazi Germany now!"

What if, what if they honestly were doing this just to keep track of suspected terrorists? Nothing more, nothing less, and the transparency was so said possible terrorists go and act like idiots and get caught.

I mean there are people who upload themselves breaking the law and uploading it on their facebook and HOLY SHIT THEY GET CAUGHT.

Also I don't think they are "keeping track" of my communications. My guess is if a key word dings for a moment, it'll show up in a huge data base, a person who is paid not much money glances at it, and moves on.

Maybe because I realize the internet isn't private? As much as we all want it to be, it never was. When we live in a society that as some say is "always connected", guess what, it means you're connected.

In this digital age you can't really be by yourself unless you live in the woods or some shit. At least be glad we don't need SIN tags or anything like that.

~

Also why does no one give a rats ass when IS Ps, Apple, Google, etc spy on us, but the government does it not for advertising but maybe to protect lives, everyone flips their wig? I'm convinced we could all become slaves to corporations and people would go "Well at least the government isn't spying on me!"

edited 8th Jun '13 1:39:21 AM by Thorn14

Like it notes in one of the articles I posted, the Security Services have too much information — they need to be specific to find anything with the resources they have, which are not infinite. To do anything with it, well...it'll need other sources to tie in to justify doing anything about it — I mean, they can't keep track of all suspected Terrorists^note  One of the articles floated a figure of 50,000 people to ensure surveillance on British terrorists alone — which is impossible with the resources they have, and maybe of little benefit , let alone ordinary people.

What ordinary people do is of no concern to them — they don't have the time or resources to deal with that. Not even the NSA or CIA can do that.

edited 8th Jun '13 2:20:39 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

I'm not sure how much the government could collect all this data for just $20 million a year, the supposed cost of PRISM. Plus, there are the tech companies who all say there is no "direct access". Either they are all lying, or someone is making a bit more of things than they shouldd.

edited 8th Jun '13 1:58:09 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Right, why the fuck would the government care what restaurant my Aunt tweeted?

Maybe they aren't gathering all this data in some huge super database powered by tears and broken dreams like some people act like?

edited 8th Jun '13 2:18:25 AM by Thorn14

^

I know they aren't because I know the Government rather well, there isn't some master plot to nab the average American who is doing nothing wrong.

That isn't the fucking point. The point is that having the data gives them the capability to do so. That is a problem. These things are supposed to be tough to do, they are supposed to involve probable cause and an individual warrant to investigate. Not "Let's break every Americans privacy, and only look for bad guys."

NO GOD DAMNIT! Lets try not trampling any Americans rights without a warrant, please? When did I get the chance to vote on this? I think the majority of Americans would say fuck no if asked, is this what I got when I voted for Obama getting a second term?

I'm not happy with this shit. I want my god damn privacy.

I'm pretty sure the American government is capable of plenty of things without us knowing the full story.

Also didn't congress support this? Like...constantly? So technically, thanks to the way our representative system works, we did vote for this and supported it.

This goes all the way back to the Patriot Act if you ask me, not Obama. Would I prefer he just scrapped it? Hell yes. But I'm not that naive.

edited 8th Jun '13 2:51:23 AM by Thorn14

<obligatory note that the vast majority of British CCTV cameras are privately owned>

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.