Ensemble Dark Horse Cleanup

I'm thinking cut, for the reasons you gave. EFAP has a lot of issues with real life troping.

This was removed once before, so I've removed it again and flagged it here. Jessica is a main cast character with a plot-significant role.

• Ensemble Dark Horse: Jessica Cruz's incarnation here has been absolutely adored by fans, owning up to her Badass Adorkable traits and how well she syncs with Jaune (as noted above). It's gotten to the point where RWBY fans specifically have asked if they can keep Jessica for themselves, considering how she has been largely Put on a Bus in most DC projects, and she would even end up getting her own character slot on RWBY's individual Fanfiction.net page upon one fanfic author's request.

The popularity of her and her interactions with Jaune were considered unexpected for people familiar with her lower status in the comics, so it's possible that a different Audience Reaction can be found to cover it; I've had a dig around and I can't find one. Perhaps someone else can. She's already listed as an Unexpected Character example.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 31st 2023 at 2:28:15 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Since she's a significant character, by definition, she doesn't count so I'd cut that entry for being misuse.

So I saw this in the Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations page.

• Victor Kudo, surprisingly enough, is liked for his over the top personality, his pretty good design (especially since he's in the same case as Jean Armstrong), and his theme. People also find hilarious the fact that he never runs out of seeds (which is actually something acknowledged in-game). Another thing that is liked by others is the fact that it turns out he was actually honest in his testimony. Unfortunately he was tricked himself and that made him look like an idiot in-game, which garnered some sympathy from players.

Since when was Victor popular? At best I can see him as a Base-Breaking Character, but he’s such a nothing character that I don’t think many have strong opinions about him. I often see him on the bottom of Ace Attorney Character Tierlists.

Yeah I’d say cut

So this was on Punch-Out!!:

• Ensemble Dark Horse:
  • Punching bag Glass Joe has strangely endeared himself to the fanbase. It helps that he hasn't ever given up a fight and keeps returning for more.
  • Von Kaiser has a number of fans due to his characterization and design.
  • Soda Popinski is fairly popular as well, thanks to his odd case of Bowdlerization.
  • Aran Ryan's insane characterization in the Wii version quickly earned him a lot of fans. Being based around an Irish stereotype that isn't drinking (and being hilarious in doing so) has also earned him plenty of fans from his country as well. Prior to Sora's arrival, numerous fans were clamoring to see him added to the Super Smash Bros. roster.
  • Super Macho Man thanks to his hilarious rich and famous Heel characterization and memetic lines, including the botched ones.
  • The Bruiser Brothers also stand out for being in the top-two of the unique Special Circuit and being left open for additional characterization. It helps that Rick and Nick have contrasting personalities with Rick not taking his loss personally in contrast to Nick being stunned psychologically.
  • Disco Kid, for his enthusiastic Dance Battler routine and being one of the very few boxers who isn't an arrogant asshole and/or a cheater.
  • Bear Hugger got a boost in popularity from his return in Wii edition, having plenty of amusing lines and even taking a level in badass by earning a spot in the Major Circuit. Being a friend of squirrels and bears helps too.

Literally every one of these guys are major bosses in the games and are given a large amount of focus, too prominent to count for this. Cut?

NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE

Disco Kid might be able to stay since he’s only in the Wii version and is not a major fighter, being the third boss.

Edited by Loginator1113 on Jan 15th 2024 at 1:33:03 AM

I mean. "A major boss fight in the game" doesn't mean much when it's a Boss Game and if every boss is given equal focus, then I'd wager that none of them would be too prominent. If everyone gets equal prominence, then they're equals as far as an ensemble would count. Mac, Doc, the final bosses, and arguably the various title holders might have additional prominence enough to DQ them, but most of the non-title bouts wouldn't.

Super Macho Man, for example, has too much prominence to count.

So... EnsembleDarkhorse.Transformers is weird. Mostly because it starts off with listing every Transformers Hall of Fame winner which seems... irregular and off-mission. It also sort of illustrates the difficulty in "darkhorse for the work they're in or the franchise as a whole?" because it means we have writeups for BW Megatron, who is absolutely beloved but also the primary antagonist for two of the most prominent Transformers works. Sure, in the whole of Transformers canon he's technically not the most prominent character but that seems odd.

Now, there's a lot of cleanup for the page because it really just lists popular characters, especially ones that have very prominent showings in one work but in others is relatively minor (freaking Grimlock and Soundwave are in there).

So basically, I have three issues with the page.

• First is the format, with the HOF inductees first.
• Second is that I think we need to establish what "minor" means for such a huge franchise. Some characters are minor, but most are only minor in the grand scheme of things, but were major players when they gained popularity and simply maintained their popularity since then^note  For example, Armada Optimus Prime is the single most prevalent TF for like five years. But in the grand scheme of things he's a relatively minor player.. Another example lists "the entire main cast" (emphasis not mine), which is a bit insane to say unless you're counting "main"ness only across the entire franchise.
• Thirdly is cleaning up characters that just don't have that much popularity. This is, at least, straightforward.
  • Related to the above is cleaning up ZC Es, which will help since a lot of them just say "character name."

Edited by Larkmarn on Jan 25th 2024 at 11:21:49 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

Batman lists Tim and Damian (Robins), Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown (Batgirls), Harley Quinn and Mr. Bloom (major antagonists). Any reason to keep on the page, given they all have important roles?

Edited by TantaMonty on Mar 6th 2024 at 8:06:59 AM

Nope. Cut them all.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Maybe it depends on the work? Like I'm pretty sure Harley is a Breakout Character from her originating animated series so she would probably be a darkhorse there.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Harley is still a fairly major character in the work, though- she appears in multiple episodes and receives a good deal of focus and characterization. She was probably a dark horse when it first came out, but I don't think she's that now.

Running this one past the thread before adding it — for Myths & Religion:

• The Roman governor Pontius Pilate plays an important but relatively small role in The Four Gospels, sentencing Jesus to death. Pilate's fate afterwards isn't mentioned, but his seeming reluctance to prosecute Jesus led early Christians to write the "Pilate cycle" a whole collection of works about, or purportedly written by, Pilate. Many of these claim that after Jesus' death, Pilate converted to Christianity and spent the rest of his life spreading the faith.

Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 14th 2024 at 11:13:26 AM

Potentially stupid question, how much of a darkhorse does an Ensemble Darkhorse have to be to qualify? I want to add Pogey to YMMV.Fraggle Rock Back To The Rock as they are far and away one of the most popular Muppets in the entire Muppet fandom right now, and has remained so weeks after season 2's release, but I'm held up by them being a reoccurring character with minor roles (if usually just one line, and said line in turn usually being "Hi, Red!") in almost every episode, and also the fact that they have an A Day in the Limelight episode ("I'm Pogey"). There's also a less-savory vocal minority within the Muppet fandom that thinks a non-binary Muppet is too "woke", though I think ROCEJ would fortunately shut down political Broken Base cases.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Apr 24th 2024 at 11:02:22 AM

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk

I think a recurring character with generally little relevance to the plot barring A Day in the Limelight can be valid.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

From YMMV.Go A:

---

• Ensemble Dark Horse:
  • They were one among their fellow Eurovision 2021 entrants: while other Top 5 acts like France's Barbara Pravi, Switzerland's Gjon's Tears or Iceland's Daði Freyr were seen as favourites to win for several months, and even eventual winner Måneskin took the top spot in the odds after rehearsals started, Go_A's genre-defying, own-language effort took most people by surprise when they ended up winning the most televotes in their semi-final and the second most televotes in the grand final (ultimately finishing in 5th place), and later going viral on social media.
    • In contrast with many other acts that would have partaken in 2020, such as Dadi, Gjon, Destiny, The Roop and Victoria, Go_A had never been seen as a title contender with their first song, Solovei, which was publicly selected, and there was even agitation about it keeping Ukraine's 100% record of qualification (its potential qualification chances were openly questioned by Deban Aderimi of the major artist-endorsed fan site Wiwibloggs in a video predicting who would have qualified, leading to Katarina jokingly mocking him when doing a promotional performance of Solovei for that website's replacement entertainment owing to ESC's cancellation that year, though he would be eventually won over by Shum the next year, which would be a favourite in hindsight of his presenting partner William Lee Adams), though it was a mid-table placer in many fan lists, and the fact it would have closed Semi Final 1, as revealed in the song Celebration broadcast, was also in its favour.
  • Within the band, Ihor is maybe the most recognisable member next to Kate, thanks to his youthful looks and the instrument he plays, a traditional flute called a sopilka.

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Feels like misuse, as it's being applied to a real band and its members, not characters. Cut?

Cut as NLR and band members are of equal importance as opposed to minor members.

EnsembleDarkHorse.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic had several examples cut citing "are now Base-Breaking Characters". I believe becoming divisive after being a Darkhorse doesn't retroactively disqualify unlike how becoming less hated later retroactively disqualifies The Scrappy (as they're different enough ED and Scrappy have different waiting periods), but it seems arbitrary enough I'm asking here.

The Examples in question.

• Big Macintosh: Only became divisive in Season 5 of 9, meaning he was a Darkhorse for 5 years. Entry only applies to his characterization that single episode so seems misuse anyway.
• Spitfire: Became divisive 3 years in, and when she got more focus, so better argument for cutting but still asking.
• Limestone Pie: Again only changed after 5 years. But an odd case as she was a blank slate background character in her debut but when appearing as a full character she was a completely different one than what fanon expected/portrayed. How does that factor in?

I think there's even more credence for an Ensemble Dark Horse if they were a total background character carried by Fanon portrayals (that's like half of the MLP darkhorses). I also think a character can be a former darkhorse who became a BBC after becoming a Breakout Character.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.