Superman General

...Oh. Well, why didn't you just say so?

Anyone read Superwoman and it's developments with Maxima?

They actually revealed the previous Maxima was just an AWOL soldier of Maxima's mother who took the name "Maxima" and try to restore the namesake to a more "traditional" role, which was to simply procreate with as many men as possible. Meanwhile, the real Maxima had been busy training thousands of people to be intergalactic peacekeepers

edited 14th Sep '17 5:33:50 AM by Zarius

Do we know if Maxima was still a member of the League back in the day, or is that still retconned? (Yex, Maxima used to be a fucking Justice Leaguer. Shocking, I know.)

Apparently, aside from revealing the identity of Mr. Oz (and it's a doozy, I'll give'em that), the new Action Comics #987 issue contains a less than subtle jab at anti-illegal-immigrant sentiments, with Superman - empathetic and understanding as he always is - addressing the grievances of the assaulting party, a disgruntled unemployed Hulk Hogan lookalike with an American flag bandanna - by stating that "The only person responsible for the blackness smothering your soul — is you!"

Naturally, after handing the perp to the police, Superman uses his vast physical abilities and considerable other resources to assist in the accommodation of said immigrants, build proper housing for them as he was known to do back in the day, and provide lasting practical solutions to this controversial situa... no, wait, he just orders the arriving cops to protect them and flies off. As usual.

Now, the actual political stance notwithstanding - and I'm totally using the above phrase verbatim the next time a millennial complains about not being able to find a job - is this the kind of response best employed in what are, per their very title, Action Comics? That is, it's one thing to use exaggerated representations of real life issues to get a message through - back when a depowered Superman stood with a group of protesters against brutal policemen, it kinda-sorta worked, because at that time, there was nothing more he could have done. Traditionally, however, the guy is pretty much built around the idea of having more than enough resources to make a difference in any situation he encounters.

Consequently, reducing him to an angry and belligerent talking head is just... lame. If anything, the message becomes the opposite - that even someone as powerful as Superman is unable (or unwilling) to make a dent in such matters, which I find to be further disheartening. Essentially, it's not the politics that are questionable, but the defeatism that's inevitably involved when writers themselves are unable (or unwilling) to provide even fictional solutions to such problems.

edited 15th Sep '17 3:05:25 AM by indiana404

Possibly the writer pulled back because he didn't want to diminish a sensitive, complicated, real issue by having Superman solve it out of hand in a comic book. That, of course, begs the question of why he'd have Superman address it at all, then (by portraying the anti-immigration guy as a simple-minded goon whose only problem with immigration is "the blackness in his soul," perhaps this writer isn't the best person to address complicated issues). Indeed, writers in the past have deliberately avoided having Superman (and other heroes) address real issues for just that reason. It begs the comparison to Elliot S! Maggin's "Must There Be a Superman?" where Superman built housing for migrant workers whose homes were destroyed in an earthquake, but then counseled them that for most issues they couldn't wait for him to show up and fix things for them.

They could have had a sane voice counterpart to the anti-illegal immigration extremist. Like the character could have been one who was for border security, but believed the goon was going too far that he was willing to kill people. I think Superman wouldn't be someone who would let innocent people die, because they have their reasons for illegally crossing.

superman had 5 other incidents across the world to deal with. With people of all races being awful

That's another can of worms - him going all "blackness of your soul" on the guy must have been nice and therapeutic for the writers venting their own frustrations with reality... However, both for Superman as a character and particularly in a story where big bunches of people are acting up for various nefarious reasons, it doesn't exactly paint him in a flattering light.

This is the third time in a row where he jumps the gun in terms of aggression. First there was Luthor wearing his colors, which incident was supposed to have ended with them on a lot more amicable terms than usual. Then there was Luthor... not doing anything at all, as it turns out, but Superman was still quick to smash into his office and throw baseless accusations. That story had Luthor literally fighting off a supernaturally enhanced urge to beat Superman to a pulp, ultimatelly ending with the latter smugly proclaiming that he could "see through people", as if he knew all along that Luthor was, again, innocent.

All in all, I just can't see what sort of direction they're going with right now. Is the idea that Superman starts off aggressive and learns to be more tempered? Or that he needs to trust people more? Considering how Mr Oz's agenda seems to be to convince him that humans are bastards, the expected endgame would be for Superman to hold a grand speech about the goodness of humanity... It's just that his own attitude hasn't been too conductive for that for some time now.

Damned writers.

Its Luthor though.

Pardon Supes for being apprehensive against his greatest nemesis who has backstabbed him countless times.

Excuse superman for thinking lex us up to something when its his tech being used for said something. What's more likely that lex slid back to villainy or that someone somehow stole from lex luthor

Remember, this was after a story where this Superman, being an alternate universe newcomer, had spent considerable effort looking for dirt on this particular Luthor, finding absolutely nothing; he basically used Luthor wearing his sports jersey as an excuse to assault him. At least that incident ended with him admitting he was wrong and vowing not to judge people based on his own fears and prejudice... which was apparently thrown out for the second aforementioned arc. He jumped the gun again, he was proven wrong again, yet he ended up saying he sees through people, even though that was demonstrated false in that same story.

Consequently, even if the current arc really is building to him rejecting Mr. Oz's vision of humanity, he would still possess zero credibility for his own stance on human nature, since his own behavior doesn't support it.

Supes never assaulted Lex.

He just lightly touched the insignia & got shocked due to the armors security systems.

Also Lex is a pro at hiding dirt. Its one of the ways of how he can make a living.

edited 15th Sep '17 9:48:10 PM by slimcoder

I am half convinced you are superboy prime who moved on to here with how you can twist anything into superman being in the wrong

but seriously it's luthor tech and as shown in other books lex is still kinda shady, he tried to open up a hell dimension in new super-man and what happened in superwoman with him. he might try to be a hero but the last time Superman had seen his luthor he was throwing away universal life and peace just so he could try and kill superman.

He was still around for the Crime Syndicate crisis, meaning he was also aware of the evil version of himself running about, and the first thing he'd have learned of this Luthor would be how he fought the Syndicate off. Plenty of grounds for building a less biased opinion, never mind that, like I said, he conceded that point himself at the end of Men of Steel. Main point is, writers might want to aim for more consistency in the guy's behavior.

(By the way, trying to forcibly take someone's clothes off is assault in the legal sense. The term it's often confused with is "battery"... which Superman still commited after he triggered the automated defense systems of a guy fresh out of a firefight. I mean, if I got burned while trying to grope a flamed-on Human Torch, I don't think I'd be justified in suing him for arson.)

He lightly tapped him, thats it.

He never was gonna take off his suit, it was just a simple poke.

Also thats just one universe in a world where everyone's morality was flipped. Nearly everywhere else Luthor is still Luthor.

Lightly tapped? Is that really how we describebtrying to remove an article of clothing from somebody?

More to the point, the whole "Luthor is still Luthor" attitude is precisely the kind of mentality least becoming of Superman. If he's really that determined, he might as well just kill the guy and be done with it already.

And that's pretty much my general impression of traditional superheroes as written for the past few decades. Used to be a time when their technical pacifist stance was supported by their overall attitude and behavior. Consequently, the times where they did go overboard actually meant something. Nowadays, it seems to be the opposite - the most glorified paragons lash about in impotent rage, while even the murderous anti-heroes get more spots of compassion. Pardon my Arabian, but dafuq happened?

Regarding Luthor in particular, I guess his shtick as a corrupt businessman or politician hits a bit too close to home, causing writer anxieties to leak into their characters, essentially burning real life figures in effigy. Predictably, the most noble - and hence treated as morally irreproachable - characters get hit the hardest with that ugly stick. Eventually, though, the whole thing starts feeling like a Jack Chick tract, costing five bucks per issue just to see writers vent their frustrations, rather than actually present engaging characters worth the interest... And then they wonder why sales drop and what gimmick to try and bring them back up again.

Yeah, I don't really see Superman ascribing to "A=A." We've gotten a few writers over the years who seem to want Superman to react pathologically to Luthor, whenever he encounters him, under whatever circumstances. It's natural, perhaps, given how often Luthor has attacked/ screwed over/ antagonized Superman, but we expect better from the Man of Steel. I refer back to Maggin's Superman of the early 80's, and Morrison's Superman from All-Star Superman, who don't actually hate Luthor at all. Their feeling is more akin to exasperation, as in "you're a genius; you could make the world a better place, and you spend all your time trying mess with me."

" remove an article of clothing"

First time anyone's ever called Powered Armor "an article of clothing".

Again the last time Clark saw a Luthor he had just turned down universal peace just so he could try to kill superman. at that point I would probably consider him a lost cause too. Cause the only thing he had to not do was try to hurt someone. and he couldn't do that

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/09/15/exclusive-its-super-sons-vs-teen-titans-in-december/

Superman is gonna be involved in a crossover with Super Sons and Teen Titans.

I wonder how much Damian siding with Jon is just him not wanting to do what some future Batman tells him

edited 16th Sep '17 6:11:01 PM by Deadpoolrocks

Yeah, I posted that in the DC Comics General thread.

Holy shit. Just realized... that's not Jor-El.

That's Roz-Em.

And this isn't the first time he's pulled this shit.

Superman being suspicious of Luthor is one thing; however, it's the way he acts on these suspicions that's a deal-breaker, first with the assault and now with jumping the gun on the flimsiest of evidence. Speaking of which, the fact he didn't just go to the police with it is rather indicative that, as @Robbery said, writers seem to enjoy giving him excuses to fly off the handle and barge into Luthor's office. Like I said, if he were so adamant that Luthor is beyond redemption for his crimes - which, in this particular situation, Superman hasn't even seen - he might as well just kill the guy and call it a day.

I reckon that's been a problem with Superman ever since the nineties - writers know they can never cross certain borders with him as they can with competing anti-heroes, only the way they overcompensate for it doesn't really make him different from those, but rather a defanged imitation. When someone like the Punisher shoots up a mob mansion without prompting, at least his logic is that he's putting murderers and assorted scum in caskets instead of on the streets. When Superman smashes into some rich guy's house and threatens him, there's no such excuse. He's doing it for the sake of venting his (and by proxy, his writers') frustrations, with no actual endgame in sight.

Finally, with the alternate dimension shenanigans these past few years, he has literally started attacking a person he has no evidence of guilt for, simply on the basis that the guy looks like someone else he dislikes. Dunno about anyone else, but if I wanted to see that sort of behavior being lionized, I'd watch Fox News.

(Oh, and before the obligatory "don't like, don't read" suggestion, remember that these comics share a universe and a reader has every reason to be concerned when the flagship and hence most crossover-prone characters start glitching - it tends to spill onto other books.)

"Punisher shoots up a mob mansion without prompting, at least his logic is that he's putting murderers and assorted scum"

And we all know there are no servants or family members in those mansions. And not having done anything wrong means you will, right?

Punisher to me has always been a waste of trees and ink.

edited 23rd Sep '17 3:11:45 PM by AnotherGuy