Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Generally speaking if you're at a point where everyone is treating you like Hannibal Lecter, you're probably not making it back to protagonist status unless the name of the show is Hannibal.

I was pretty sure they weren't going to let Ward get away with his shit with some shallow charm and puppy dog eyes, but it was gratifying to see them fully slam the door on any possible redemption arc. He doesn't deserve it, because he doesn't actually know what he's supposed to be sorry for, just what's expected of him.

edited 16th Dec '16 7:36:38 PM by Unsung

Most of the people around here that thought it was headed for a redemption arc reacted with 'oh god no!'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Yeah, after reading the one person who thought it was gonna happen and was super gung ho about it, I was like, "Okay, if you're it, then there must be other people like you, except not as gung ho."

But it just never occurred to me.

I took that twist at face value. I didn't realize they were slamming that value into everyone else's face over and over until it fucking took.

Yeah, after a few times of them saying he was an evil dick and Ward proving it constantly, I kinda came to the realization that I was wrong about it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

I never understood how anyone could think Ward would be redeemed unless they're just used to seeing it in previous media.

That's probably why I thought it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

The fact that it does happen all the time lately is why it was so satisfying to see a story where it didn't.

Well it kinda did, just not for Ward. While I'm okay with Ward not getting any real redemption, it's disappointing how much hammered it in by making him lose depth as the show went on. By the end all that came to mind was "Get on with it".

‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’

I'm sorry, lose depth? He was the same character from season 1's reveal to his death in season 3. I can only wonder why you thought he lost any.

that one person in the room who didn't call Villain Decay on Ward in Season 2

edited 16th Dec '16 9:00:12 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Man, Ward didn't have depth. That's the whole point— he's a shallow, stunted shell of a man, who is nothing but a pretty face and superficial charm without someone to hold his leash. He's what the spy business made him— somebody who can play a role, but who lacks direction and a sense of self. Kind of a stock Whedon character, but played for zero sympathy here, which I appreciated.

Ward didn't decay so much as he was revealed to have never been much more than a shadow puppet for Hydra. The fact that he became more and more pathetic each time we saw him was pretty much the perfect denouement for that character, based on what we'd seen of him at the end of Season 1.

edited 16th Dec '16 9:15:29 PM by Unsung

When Ward killed everyone on the plane I was pretty much "what the hell" and expected some sort of explanation. Which was good, because when he was about to drop Fitz and Simmons out of the plane, I was actually invested in the question if he would actually do it...and then he did it, making the scene way more dramatic than it would have been if someone who had been established as villain from the get go had done it.

After Garret was out of the picture I kind of expected Ward to become some sort of evil ally for a while...the funny thing is that Ward though the same thing, but the team wouldn't have it. That was hilarious. By the point everyone was on the plane and he had his big speech and everyone was all "yeah, we still hate you", I saw two possible outcomes for the character, going full evil or him actually trying to go for some sort of healing off-screen. I mean, at this point it still looked as if Garreth had brain washed him as a teen. But they he went full evil, I wasn't actually surprised.

I mean that was half of the fun about Ward in the second season, the not knowing what he would do next. He became kind of predictable in season three until he became Squidward and therefore even more difficult to read.

I wrote Ward off as irredeemable for this show the moment he killed Victoria Hand. A lot of people were willing to give him a pass on it because she was kind of an asshole, but I was like, "He has outright murdered a high-ranking member of the law enforcement agency he serves. You don't get to come back and just be like, 'Water under the bridge!' after that!"

This only became more true when he killed Koenig, who didn't have the asshole qualifier.

I remember a lot of arguments because people misunderstood my meaning back then. It wasn't that Ward couldn't come back from being a murderer. Lots of murderers get redemption arcs. It's that Ward can't come back from being a cop-killer on a cop show.

Any true redemption arc for Ward would first require him to get the f*ck off of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and into someone else's show, because if he ever was to receive a second chance, it wouldn't be from SHIELD. From their perspective, he should NEVER receive a single ounce of trust again. NEVER. Period.

Could he redeem himself as a citizen or private agent or member of some other faction? Sure. That wasn't out of the question. But the S.H.I.E.L.D. bridge was burned forever.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

But then it turned out he was, like, a super Nazi cultist, and that was before we found out about the alien mutant demon god that they were supposed to be worshiping.

In fairness, Ward didn't know about the secret-ancient demon god either. His initial reaction when Malick told him was kind of "You really believe that? Okay, whatever, you're a better leader than me, so I'll follow for now." He only began to believe in the last few hours of his life, when he saw the two-thousand year old HYDRA statue on Maveth.

I find it ironic that Ward killing a woman who ordered him to murder someone was the first villainous act we see him do.

I that Hive takes on more traits of its previous host than any other. Why?

Because when the choice between the dubiously loyal old man and his fanatically loyal daughter, Hive can't help but kill the fucking daughter.

You know what sucked the most about Squidward arc?

Skye becoming super-obsessed with him, only for another enigmatic villain (Lash) to knock some sense into her.

Seriously, that was so moronic, so ridiculously forced, so Mary Sue-ish and Deus Ex Machina-ish that I'm surprised how nobody had the idea to flat-out reject it.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis

Well she was brainwashed.

I have absolutely no idea how you think those tropes apply to that situation in the slightest. What does Mary Sue have to do with anything?

I guess becasue SquidWard was able to make SkyeDaisies become obsessed with him. But as noted, there was literal and chemical brainwashing involved.

edited 18th Dec '16 3:19:46 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

The "she is mysteriously saved by an Ass Pull because The Plot Demands It" bit, pretty much robbing the concept of all the drama it might have had, with the sudden No-Sell thrown on top of it and Lash's entire character arc if there was one rendered nonsensical (okay, I mean, the guy was running around, killing people, blasting holes in the walls and shit, and suddenly he turns out to have a superpower that nullifies Squidward's brainwashing in that one very special case of the girl the writers and nobody else loves? BULLSHIT.).

The brainwashing itself has the least to do with it. That, and weren't the "see your death" visions supposed to be from the touched character's point of view, and not some remote-viewing hogwash?

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis

Not that I'm aware of. The death visions were simply "See something about when the next person you know will die." So when Daisy first touched the guy, she had a bunch of visions — like Fitz and Simmons holding hands in the snow (which turned out to be ash), which she wasn't around to see.

As for Lash, it was implied that he was the Inhuman counterweapon to Hive — the reason he went around killing Inhumans was so that Hive couldn't mindcontrol them and he had the ability to absorb energy and redirect it, thus making him immune to Hive's control. That whole "absorb energy" thing is probably what he did with Daisy.

edited 18th Dec '16 8:03:56 PM by alliterator

I think the issue being presented is that Lash being Hive's counter only really came into play in regards to saving Daisy. When the subject first some of here figured that was the case when we learned of Hive, but how it was handled was "off" to some.

‘My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’

YMMV:

Neither Lash nor Hive anything as cool as their powers seemed to hint at for me. They just kept getting new powers, or else having new uses for their powers appear in a way that felt contrived.

Robbie doesn't have that problem. Daisy and Cal didn't have that problem. And the slow reveal of Deathlok actually managed that same kind of power-creep very well, so it sticks out to me that Lash and Hive's powers seem more like a storytelling device than intrinsic parts of their characters.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:43:02 AM by Unsung