Misused (rename crowner 9/11/13): Cavemen Vs Astronauts Debate

Okay, but "heated discussion over something unimportant" is the trope Serious Business. So perhaps we should merge Cv A into that SB.

Serious Business isn't necessarily about an argumentative discussion between two sides. It's just taking something extremely seriously, far more than the average person would. So I don't think it's a good merge.

Ducks.

edited 12th May '13 1:29:38 PM by AnotherDuck

Serious Business is the show portraying something as super important when it's really not. Caveman Vs Astronauts Debate is a huge fight over an obviously unimportant and often even nonsensical subject. They're not that similar. Closest it gets is a character taking something way too seriously, but that doesn't mean they have a fight over it or that it even becomes a point of contention at any point.

^ Ducks are rapists. Rabbits are adorable. Rabbits.

edited 12th May '13 2:09:12 PM by Arha

Sure, but they usually portray something as (overly) important by showing a huge argument about it.

It's more or less a subtrope. The qualifiers for Serious Business is that a particular subject or activity has everyone take it seriously or it is given a lot more importance than the average person would give it. The key example is card games in Yu Gi Oh, where the fate of the world rests on it. "Cavemen vs. Astronauts" Debate is a lot more low key, where the point of it even using the trope is the fact that it is a pointless debate.

But the point of the Caveman trope is that it's completely trivial and is barely even worth talking about let alone fighting over it. Just because the trope are vaguely similar doesn't mean they're the same thing.

Serious Business usually isn't a debate over a mundane topic. Most often, it's a competition with unjustifiably high stakes or importance.

Okay, that's fair. SB and CVAD often overlap but are distinct tropes.

So what's the difference between CVAD and Hypothetical Fight Debate?

Hypothetical Fight Debate is a debate about hypothetical fights. It may or may not be heated or overblown.

CVAD is about heated, overblown debates on mundane topics. It may or may not be about hypothetical fights (but it almost always is not).

That probably sums it up better than what I was about to write. The names make the tropes sound like the same, but they're not.

@Arha: Are you calling me a rapist?

Thanks, I see the difference now.

That does lead me to conclude that "Cavemen vs. Astronauts" Debate is not a good name for this trope, though.

^^ Not unless I'm an adorable bunny. Am I?

^ No, it's not really a good name.

Shall we proceed to the crowner?

Rename yes/no? Looking through the thread, there's a lot of definition discussion, but no real proof of actual misuse. What's been said about misuse has been said against.

Well, no. You just want to abduct an easily tricked father, and preferably a similar mother as well.

Misuse appears to be low, but zero context examples appear to be high. 70 wicks also seems rather low for a trope dating back over three years. I think that merits a crowner and I'm not sure what courses are open to us to make it used more effectively or commonly other than giving it a more sensible name.

An effective counter. I had a response here, but edited it out since I don't want us to stray off topic.

edited 13th May '13 2:37:55 PM by Arha

"Trope namer is an example of a different trope" strikes me as a good reason to rename

Heated Mundane Argument.

I'm boring.

Trope namer seems to be this trope, but it's not well conveyed by the quote at all (Because the important bit is the shouted "NO!").

edited 13th May '13 10:31:29 PM by Scardoll

The Trope Namer is still an example of the trope, it's a meaningless argument that happens to get a callback when things go to shit. Listening to the commentary Joss Whedon even specifies that the point was to see the tension in the group over something small fade away when something big and important happens.

So, the only thing to discuss here is a potential rename? I personally don't see a reason to rename anything.

This would clearly have gone to the "fixing premature launches" thread if that had existed back when this trope was made, and there's been substantial misuse on the page itself. So we should crowner this.

Crownering a rename of Cavemen etc., yes?

Yes, I think so.

Alright, made the crowner here and called for a hook.

Crowner's hooked.

I'll agree that a rename would be good, but why does the crowner still talk about the trope being misused? So far no one's brought up a concrete example of misuse.

You'll have to ask Spark 9.