RWBY General Discussion

What's the point of even having team leaders if they're not supposed to be learning how to follow instructions and work together as a cohesive unit?

Considering what Cinder is shown to be able to do with her arrows, I doubt Ozpin being alerted to her prescence would stop Amber's death.

Thinking about it, even if Jaune threw himself under fire, the arrow would be able to just phase through him anyway.

@Tobi: So they can work like a cohesive unit, I guess? Still more like a warrior chieftain than a C.O.

Probably. That's a fair point. It would really be on Ozpin to either stop Cinder from firing the arrow and/or stop the arrow itself with his barrier and impressive power. But given what Ozpin's shown to do against a powered-up Cinder who just absorbed Amber's power and added it to her own, I think Cinder being ripped to pieces in seconds would probably stop her.

Ozpin is crazy powerful.

But worst case scenario, it doesn't work and everything happens exactly as it did here except it's not Jaune's fault because he actually did what he was supposed to do. That's still an improvement over "Everyone died because Jaune fails at everything."

edited 30th Aug '16 1:51:40 PM by TobiasDrake

Still no a soldier though, he was an emo-compromised warrior. In-training. In fact, a lot of emphasis on the training part for Jauney boy, but still.

"I think you're sorely underselling Ozpin's combat skills if you think Cinder would be able to land a shot on Amber with an alert and ready Ozpin actively trying to keep her from doing so."

Is not his combat skill, is his reaction ones, all Cinder have to do is move around, get pass Jaune and land a shot, that it, in fact Jaune wasnt that far from the machine, all Cinder have to do is shot quicker than Ozpin have to react

Jaune would see her trying to move past him and land a shot. And he would warn Ozpin. Seriously, all he needs to do is go "HEY" when she drops into the elevator from the shaft or enters the Vault through the elevator's doors.

There is no way for her to enter the hall from the one point of entry without being seen by Jaune unless Jaune turns around and takes his eyes off the ball. Which he did. And...dropped it in the process because you need to watch your hands...I don't know, I screwed up this metaphor. >.<

Point is, Jaune's job isn't to fight Cinder. Ozpin's job is to keep Cinder away from Amber. Jaune's job is to tell Ozpin that Cinder is there so that he can do his job. But Ozpin couldn't do his job because Jaune didn't do his.

And honestly, I think there was a reason Cinder never confronted Ozpin directly and went for a sneak attack when the opportunity arises. Until she absorbed Amber's power, she couldn't handle Ozpin in a fair fight. She knew that. So she struck while he was busy and his idiot guard wasn't paying attention.

edited 30th Aug '16 1:58:12 PM by TobiasDrake

Ozpin also didn't tell Jaune that Pyrrha would be put in extreme pain because of the transfer.

So there's also that on him.

Also, the corridor was huge and pretty dark. I don't think Jaune would have had very much time regardless to tell Ozpin about Cinder given that she'd be coming out from the shadows ready to pop an arrow into Amber.

Also, I'm absolutely sure Ozpin is not dead. Where he is, I dunno, but blaming Jaune for Ozpin's death out of universe seems a little disingenuous. Whether he feels like it's his fault in-universe is different, but I feel like assuming Ozpin is still alive at the moment is a safe bet. And as for Phyrra's death, she died on her own terms, so blaming Jaune for that is at most secondary as a cause, since she chose to go back and fight Cinder on her own (secondary since she wouldn't have had to make the choice assuming they had stopped Cinder).

edited 30th Aug '16 2:01:11 PM by Alfric

Oh the whole Broken Base about Jaune fucking up still going....

I really don't want to argue but here is a point:

Jaune was in a place he had no idea was even in the school, apparently neither Ozpin nor Pyrrha told him what where they going to do there.

Then he sees his friend get in a weird machine where a comatose woman is laying there too. Then Ozpin tells him to cover him for a while. Then his friends starts screaming because of the transfering being painful and that worries Jaune.

And you expect him to keep it cool and guard the place from whatever was coming after them? Hell no! No one like Jaune would be ok just ignoring whatever Ozpin was doing to Pyrrha.

I'm not saying that he did not screwed up, because frankly he did. But blaming him for not spotting Cinder on time is just stretching it

You know I'm honestly not sure what the point of teams are. It's not to learn to work as a cohesive unit, because after 4 years they can go and do whatever they want and most hunters work solo.

Even now the idea that either Jaune or Ruby has to be the leader of RNJR because they were the leaders at Beacon is wrong. Ren could lead, or nobody could lead because they aren't a school team anymore they're Unofficial pros.

If both Ozpin and Pyrrha are people that person respected and admired and believed knew what they were doing, then yes, they would accept that maybe Ozpin and Pyrrha - who both clearly know what they're doing - know what's going on better than he or she does.

Especially with this exchange:

• Ozpin: Are you ready?
• Pyrrha: (nod)
• Ozpin: I need to hear you say it.
• Pyrrha: Yes.
• Ozpin: Thank you, Miss Nikos.

Like, that exchange alone communicates that some shit is about to go down, that both Ozpin and Pyrrha know that, that Ozpin is clearly concerned about Pyrrha and wouldn't be doing this without her informed consent, and that Pyrrha is braced and ready to do...whatever it is they're doing.

That exchange alone is reason to trust whatever comes next.

On the contrary, hearing something like this by someone who's completely in the dark about the affair - like Jaune - is not reassuring in the slightest. It sounds exactly like "some really fucked-up shit is about to happen".

Did he even hear that?

It's clear that Pyrrha is going to trust in Ozpin since he took the time to explain himself and what was a stake.

Instead, Jaune was completely in the dark. Good luck with that

I believe not. In fact i thing he was doing what he was ordered

edited 30th Aug '16 2:18:46 PM by fasoman1996

It's not supposed to be reassuring in the sense that "nothing bad is going to happen". It's reassuring in the sense that both Ozpin and Pyrrha know what they're doing, and whatever f*cked up shit is about to happen, Pyrrha has agreed to do it of her own free will and Ozpin would never have put her in this position if he didn't think she'd be safe.

It absolutely telegraphs f*cked up shit happening but, by all rights, also shows that the people who know what's going on better than you do are ready and willing to handle whatever it is they're handling.

It's called trust, and Jaune should try showing some.

Reminder that Ozpin (or someone else, I don't remember) did say to Pyrrha that they are not sure if the whole plan would actually work. For all they know it would fail miserably. Pyrrha did it because there were no other options. She entrusted her life for something what could fail. So Jaune was being properly cautious in the situation.

edited 30th Aug '16 2:22:39 PM by TPPR10

Um...it's kind of debatable.

Again, Jaune had no idea what were they going to do and he didn't hear what they were saying.

But if you hear your friends scream, aren't you going to ask what the fuck is going on?

Probably. But I would still be watching the elevator. Jaune was within earshot of the machine, so he could just as easily call out to Ozpin to ask what's going on or, at worst, sidle backwards to get closer and ask while still keeping eyes front for danger.

'Cause, y'know, they're under siege by enemies that could come through that elevator at any moment.

edited 30th Aug '16 2:24:39 PM by TobiasDrake

That would be the rational thing to do, yes.

That's not realistic at all. Jaune would need to literally not care in the slightest about Pyrrha's wellbeing if he is going to prioritize guarding something from an upcoming enemy than whatever thing was happening behind him.

edited 30th Aug '16 2:30:19 PM by fasoman1996

Pyrrha is one of the things he's guarding. An easily-avoidable ambush could just as easily get her killed as anyone else.

Which, ultimately, is exactly what happened. It just took a roundabout course to get there.

edited 30th Aug '16 2:32:41 PM by TobiasDrake

Expecting people to act rationally is the height of irrationality.

In my opinion.

I am pretty sure that if Jaune would start asking questions, Ozpin wouldn't give any, at which point it could turn into an argument and whoops.