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TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#1: Mar 14th 2013 at 10:01:21 AM

So I'm developing a character in my story, but it's early enough in it's development that his/her gender can go either way. Here's some background:

  • Nora (disregard the name, it really doesn't matter) is a mage who was born with very strong empathic abilities. This is quite uncommon for her people and those affected usually need training to control their powers or it is likely they will develop emotional problems. At a young age, she is asigned a mentor who is also affected with the condition. She views him as one of the first people who truly 'understands' her. He also serves as a replacement paternal figure to her. (due to the fact her father died before she was born) After a few years of training her, he dies tragically.

Much later, Nora encounters another 'empath' out of the blue. This empath was forced to leave his/her town after a raid by the Evil Empire left them as the sole survior. Despite the fact they know little of each other's language, they can communicate by low-level telepathy, due to their strong empathic power. They become close allies, (although there is a good amount of Unresolved Sexual Tension, maybe even implying they might have had sex, but these are all just ideas) and end up sharing A LOT of emotional intimacy. Eventually He/She is forced to leave, and both of them value the experiences they had with each other. Nora later settles down with a (male) mage who lacks empathic abilities.

  • With the other empath as a male character, I could use their relationship as a Foil to her later relationship with a non-empath.
The only problem with this is it could have hints of Unfortunate Implications considering it could sound like "All the important/special people in her life are men..."
  • I can't think of any particular pros (off the top of my head) in making the character female other than perhaps diversifying the cast or adding more opprotunities to pass the Bechel Test or writing a strong female character who averts Real Women Don'tWearDresses.
The only (kind of) cons to this is that all the Unresolved Sexual Tension used here would quickly become Homoerotic Subtext (Which I personally have no objections against) But if Nora is interpreted as a 'lesbian,' (Due to 'certain people's' belief in No Bisexuals) it could sound a lot like 'She likes girls because she didn't have father figures'
  • Potential Unfortunate Implications aside, frankly, which one of these options sounds more interesting? I would also appreciate any other thoughts you may have on this.

edited 14th Mar '13 10:05:49 AM by TheMuse

montmorencey So...yeah. from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss Since: Aug, 2011
So...yeah.
#2: Mar 14th 2013 at 2:24:12 PM

I think you shouldn't get too caught up on gender and Unfortunate Implications or the Bechedel Test. You're obviously aware of the issue, so you probably won't be making any wanton blunders.

While I think it's a good thing to pause every once in a while and ask yourself why you picked that particular gender for this particular character, you shouldn't give yourself a headache over it. Unless you're writing a work which deals specifically with gender issues.

'Male' and 'female' are as much shorthand for certain concepts as tropes are for others, as there are lots of expectations and behavioral norms coded into those categories.

As long as you aren't using 'male' and 'female' as a secondary attribute, rather than the defining factor in characterisation and don't stereotype your characters into gender-roles, it's fine to use that shorthand in your story.

The primary consideration in characterisation and relationships between characters should be personality, not gender, anyway. While there is a great deal to say in favour of feminism and defying heteronormativity, I think sometimes we overthink it these days.

Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#3: Mar 14th 2013 at 3:52:04 PM

Essentially, the two characters would have the same relationship, regardless of their gender. This is less of a 'guys, which of these is less offensive?'

  • It's more of a 'which of these seems more interesting?'

Alma The Harbinger of Strange from Coruscant Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
The Harbinger of Strange
#4: Mar 14th 2013 at 5:27:50 PM

My character is probably even more Unfortunate-Implications-y as he's one of the few males in a 90% female race. That is, the race is overwhelmingly female, but for some reason the important character, the protagonist, is a male.

I wondered on this subject myself, as I'm a woman and thus more likely to write a female, at least according to conventional wisdom. But this, I've discovered, is very rarely the case, and on the few occasions I've actually written enough to merit a mention, all my significant and favourite characters are males. I don't really understand it, as I don't identify as a male or come across as especially masculine (IMO); most of my avatars, for example, are of female characters.

More to the point, I don't think there's anything wrong with a female character having a male mentor and a large male influence in her life, because I don't like the assumption that girls only hang out with other girls and boys with other boys. This goes even for family members or mentor characters—the "father", whether benevolent or abusive, is usually reserved for a male character, and the "mother" for a female. The only fairytale I can think of off the top of my head that's to do with a father-daughter relationship is one where the father accidentally gives up his daughter to the devil.

The Bechdel test is also a very broad measure of a work's predisposition towards women, as to almost be worthless, because there are examples of largely "feminist" works which violate the law, and vice versa.

edited 14th Mar '13 5:34:24 PM by Alma

You need an adult.
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#5: Mar 14th 2013 at 5:30:43 PM

Flip a coin, I suppose.

Both options have advantages and drawbacks. Making the character male is more conventional, probably the safer option. Making the character female would probably get people's attention better. Because same-sex relationships still tend to get people's attention.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
montmorencey So...yeah. from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss Since: Aug, 2011
So...yeah.
#6: Mar 14th 2013 at 6:36:41 PM

@ Alma. I also gravitate towards writing male characters and, if my brother who beta's for me occasionally is to be believed, they tend to have better characterisation and more depth than my female characters. I think it might be not so much a matter of which gender you identify with, but rather which conflicts interest you/ do you identify with?

There are certain challenges male and female characters face that are typically associated with their respective gender, if only because society as we experience it IRL flings it at them. But that doesn't mean that a woman necessarily has to identify with typically 'feminine' conflicts, maybe because they simply weren't present in her biography for some reason. Personally, I find it very hard to relate to certain issues, which makes it so much harder for me to write about them.

Maybe it's the other way around and 'feminine' conflicts seem mundane to a female writer, but she needs to think longer and harder about the 'male' conflicts, making those characters more rounded in the end.

Or maybe the people who say that most fiction teaches girls the lesson that they are boring and 'not worth writing about' are right, and that's why a lot of female authors write male characters, while the reverse is a rarer occurance.

Obviously, the latter is A Very Bad Thing, but my point being; there are lots of ways to explain why a writer might prefer to write about characters of the opposite gender. Nothing too outlandish about it.



In regards to the original question, it sort of depends. How would your story change depending on the second empath's gender? Because there will be differences, unless your society is 100% gender-blind and accepting of homosexuality. You have to figure out what you want to tell. It's impossible to generically say which one is the more interesting option.

Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#7: Mar 15th 2013 at 12:58:38 PM

But is there a good chance that having the homoerotic subtext (and perhaps text-text) could be a little too distracting and cause people to be too preoccupied with the gender of the characters than the actual nature of their relationship?

edited 15th Mar '13 12:58:51 PM by TheMuse

montmorencey So...yeah. from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss Since: Aug, 2011
So...yeah.
#8: Mar 15th 2013 at 1:17:12 PM

What's your target audience?

Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#9: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:12:04 PM

The series is a character/plot driven high fantasy. There aren't many heavy romance themes (although romantic subplots do occasionally show up) At this point I don't really see it being directed at a specific gender. I'm in early stages so it really could go either YA or adult fiction (but with YA fiction, it'd probably a more 'mature YA' type thing) This isn't due to explicit sex or anything like that, mostly just some mature themes (mental illness/suicide, sexual assault, suggetsive themes, etc.) I'd like it to perferably to have a gender nuetral appeal if possible.

montmorencey So...yeah. from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss Since: Aug, 2011
So...yeah.
#10: Mar 15th 2013 at 2:27:18 PM

I think people that age should be able to deal with a little homoerotic subtext without suffering a Blue Screen Of Kink. I also hope that our society has advanced far enough these days that it won't set off the moral watchdogs.
Obviously, part of it depends on how competently you handle the issue, but at the end of the day, you can't center your writing around fear of audience reactions. Write the story you want to write.

Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#11: Mar 16th 2013 at 3:19:42 PM

I don't think any moral crusaders particularly care about homosexual content in fantasy stories. And anyway, who gives a shit about them? Just ignore any concerns you may have about how moral crusaders might take your work, because those people are complete fucking twats and not worth worrying about.

As far as Les Yay being distracting, well, people might get caught up in it at first, but if your writing is good enough, they'll soon get past it and enjoy the story, characters and relationships for what they are.

What it comes down to is: Which do you think you'd be able to make the better story with? Which would you write better? Do you want to deal with how their society perceives same-sex relationships, or do you want the focus to be on them as empaths?

Or just flip a coin. Whatever works.

"she needs to think longer and harder about the 'male' conflicts"

Heh. I am such a child.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#12: Mar 16th 2013 at 7:33:49 PM

Make them identify as agender/androgyne and have their gender confuse EVERYONE.

Read my stories!
TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#13: Mar 17th 2013 at 8:04:37 AM

That definitely could be interesting. [lol]

edited 17th Mar '13 8:04:58 AM by TheMuse

TheMuse Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#14: Mar 18th 2013 at 4:33:02 AM

Considering that nearly all of the characters don't understand their language, that is actually possible. (How would you ask them?) Only thing is, how would you handwave a potentially (biologically at least) female character having an, let's just say: 'androgynous' chest, when it really wouldn't make too much sense. ( unless you say 'she' was essentially trying to pull a 'Joan of Arc' to try to not be sexually assaulted.)

edited 18th Mar '13 4:33:31 AM by TheMuse

montmorencey So...yeah. from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss Since: Aug, 2011
So...yeah.
#15: Mar 18th 2013 at 4:59:15 AM

Some women have small breasts. If you wear a loose shirt over it, nobody will be able to tell that it's there.

Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#16: Mar 18th 2013 at 12:08:32 PM

Well, I see two possible ways to approach this problem, depending upon which school of thought you identify with. There's the approach that the strongest, most interesting characters avoid male/female stereotypic traits, and are written exclusively to fulfill whatever role they need to serve within the story. This may result in characters who appear somewhat androgynous to the reader, perhaps to the point that which gender they happen to be seems arbitrary. That may be a positive or a negative outcome depending upon your point of view.

On the other hand, there are those who say that if you can arbitrarily assign gender to your characters, then they aren't very realistically written. The question isn't what the implications are for the relationships you put the character in so much as the implications for how the character's personality appears to the reader. If assigning them one gender "feels wrong" and the other "feels right", then you have done it correctly. This has the potential drawback that it relies on the author's understanding of the psyche of both genders, and many authors, esp, beginning ones, are not entirely confident about that. On the other hand, forcing yourself to write realistic characters for both genders can be a useful exercise.

In the end, it's up to you.

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