Just a Face and a Caption: Sequel Displacement

It's an image of a car crash. How does that tell me it's about Sequel Displacement?

Above: Grand Theft Auto II. No, really.

edited 4th Mar '13 9:40:23 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I agree. What exactly is it trying to tell? Especially with the "no really" part of the caption. I really don't get it. I understand that GTAII could be considered an example, but the image and a caption saying what it is, followed by a 'No, really' doesn't really tell that.

There's no place that you can hide/Something that's special

+1 to pull, I have no idea how that's supposed to depict the trope.

Doesn't a trope like this really need a comparison pic?

Probably.

Check out my fanfiction!

Team Fortress+Team Fortress 2?

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

I think the best way to illustrate this trope (without relaying on captions) would be to use a cover, or something similar, that shows a title that makes it clear that it is a predecessor to a more known sequel, but at the same time makes it clear that it is different from that sequels. The problem here lays in finding something that with a sequel that is known enough to be recognizable to the average reader, but that is itself unknown enough to qualify as this trope.

My suggestions would be Dragon Ball◊ and Wolfenstein◊.

The post-GTAIII GTA games' visual style is (due to controversy) one of the most easily distinguishable ones in gaming to the general audience. The pre-GTAIII games however wallow in relative obscurity and their style is unrecognizable as GTA to those not already familiar with it. So most people wouldn't recognize it as GTA if not for the captions saying so, that's the reason for the "no, really" and why it is used here in the first place. Personally I found this to be very obvious, but if this is a common problem then all the more reason to change the image.

edited 6th Mar '13 1:35:12 PM by painocus

An image can't rely on "well known enough". I have never heard of Dragon Ball Z before I became a TRS professional, for instance.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Seriously? I find that hard to believe. Are you sure Dragon Ball Z was well known before you became professional? Anyways if we can't at all rely on something being well known enough (although I've seen many mod approved images on this wiki that do that. Star Wars ones like the one used on The Lancer spring to mind), then this trope is absolutely impossible to illustrate. Even a comparison picture would be useless as one would need to recognize one of the two elements in the picture to compare something like this.

edited 6th Mar '13 1:31:01 PM by painocus

"Admin approved images" are simply exceptions. Until the administrator himself weighs in, it's irrelevant.

And I am serious. Not everyone cares about anime & manga.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I kinda like the idea of using Wolfenstein. Basically, screen cap of the first game◊ (or is it the second? Also, alternate shot◊) juxtaposed against one of the third game◊, and a caption along the lines of "Admit it, when we say "Wolfenstein", you think of the latter, don't you?"

edited 6th Mar '13 1:33:59 PM by ShadowHog

Moon◊

Pardon, I have no idea how that fits the trope.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Wolfenstein 3D is basically the de facto start of the franchise, despite Castle Wolfenstein being the official start. The former displaced the latter. It's the trope.

Seriously, I can't think of any other way to picture this (the format would be the same no matter what work we'd chosen), unless somebody has an instance of the trope being discussed.

Uploaded a comparison shot anyway.

edited 6th Mar '13 1:41:36 PM by ShadowHog

Moon◊

You don't have to care about something's genre or medium to recognize it. I don't care about American comedy or country music, but I would still recognize Friends and Johnny Cash. Dragon Ball Z is one of the most internationally recognizable franchises in existence. Also you haven't answered me on when you became a professional, if you became one around the same point in time Dragon Ball became popular internationally then it only supports my point that even you who "don't care about anime and manga" recognize it.

Anyways, if there is some hypocritical rule that says we can't use something based on recognizability except when an admin says so, then this trope is, as I've said, impossible to illustrate.

edited 6th Mar '13 2:02:21 PM by painocus

When I became professional? January/February 2012.

Also, I repeat what I said about 7.1: That image adds no information to me.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

The trope is "a later entry in a series becomes so popular that it eclipses the original in public mindshare", right? An image of what everyone thinks is the start of a series and an actual start of a series seriously doesn't add anything to the page?

Moon◊

I am familiar with the existence of Manga.Dragon Ball. And that looks like a manga to me.

Maybe I can get it if you offer a caption.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yeah, 2012 is rather late. But still; you know about it even if you don't care about Japanese comics and animation. That at-least amounts to something in it's defense (since I don't think TRS requires unusual amount of Anime and Manga knowledge).

Anyways this is all besides the point now if the rules are as you say. Can you show me where one finds the rules for crowner images?

edited 6th Mar '13 2:17:12 PM by painocus

...I think we're talking about two different things here. @_@

Moon◊

His last comment may be directed at me. Although I'm not sure how it is supposed to be a reply to my comments. I already know that he knows about Dragon Ball and if one can't get it by the image wouldn't adding a caption just constitute Just A Face And A Caption? And if he has not misspoken and I have not misunderstood him is not his ability to recognize it irrelevant anyways? If he, despite it all, would like suggestions for captions; one could be "Wait, Dragon Ball Z is a sequel?". Or possibly something reacting to the characters' young age compared to how one would have usually seen them elsewhere.

If it is a reply to Shadow Hog: Septimus Heap, Shadow Hog is talking about Wolfenstein, I am the only one that is talking about Dragon Ball.

edited 6th Mar '13 2:38:16 PM by painocus

OK, concerning DB(Z): The age/appearance of the folks DB is even less known. Giving that a very final .

Just so to be clear, I am not getting this Audience Reaction from that image without having to know little known details about DB, and nothing said so far has changed that.

Concerning @13: What is the proposed caption there? The image alone doesn't tell me anything.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

"Little known details"? If one knows anything at all about DB(Z) besides the title it is the appearance of the character at the bottom of the image. (EDIT: Hell, many might even recognize him without even knowing what exactly he is from). And I would also say that his design is distinct enough that one would recognize him despite the age difference. (If he is not shown enough in that picture I can find another where he is more central and there are fewer other characters). More importantly the fact that it says "Dragon Ball" and not the more known "Dragon Ball Z" should in itself be a giveaway that DBZ is a sequel to this.

More important still: you have not yet explained how any of this matters at all if the rules are that recognizability is irrelevant.

edited 6th Mar '13 2:53:49 PM by painocus

edited 6th Mar '13 2:54:14 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Could we first get this "recognizability is irrelevant" problem sorted out before we take either of these discussions (Wolfenstein and Dragonball) any further, as both of them are pointless if indeed recognizability is irrelevant?

To answer your question: A Dragonball cover (not necessarily the one I linked to) could illustrate this trope as it:

1) Shows that a known series title "Dragon Ball Z" has a predecessor by showing the cover of something called "Dragon Ball". (The "Z" becoming apparent as the play on "2" that it is.)

2) Shows a character, that is recognizable even without knowing where he is from, at a younger age than what one is used to seeing him at. This indicates to the reader that what one have seen him in relation to before is a follow-up to what he is shown in here.

edited 6th Mar '13 3:09:13 PM by painocus

Re DB:

So, in other words I a) need to know who or what they are and b) have the reaction Sequel Displacement.

We have long time experience that most people do not know either thing under a) (and I most certainly didn't back in my "casual reader" days, and most people reading TV Tropes are that) and without evidence to the contrary, I am sticking to the to the DB image. And b), being subjective, can't happen without the caption telling me to, ending up carrying all the weight of the image, which is bad.

And since I want to talk about something that isn't part of a circular argument, I will say that Wolfenstein again doesn't show the reaction.

So, I am voting "Blank Until Really Good Image Suggestion".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman