Pathfinder

What everyone else said, you start at only whatever the ability modifier for the skills ruling ability is. Like INT for Knowledge, STR for Climb, DEX for Acrobatics etc... You don't have any 'starting' ranks. Each class gets a certain number of skill ranks per level to place in any skill you want. You add those, plus a number equal to you INT modifier. Say, a fighter with an int of 14. He gets 4 skill ranks each level to add to whatever skills he wants. At level one, it means he can have 1 rank in 4 skills. Add that one, plus the ability mod, plus three if it's a class skill.

Hmm... I think I see what Heirophants Fool is asking.

Calculating the bonus you get to a skill check is fairly simple. There are generally three things that factor into your skill check bonus, all just added together.

1. How many ranks do you have in the skill? Each rank adds one to the bonus, and you can have a maximum number of ranks equal to your level (so a level 1 character can only have 1 rank in each skill).
2. What modifier do you have in the associated stat? That gets added in as well. Note that, if the appropriate stat is low, you have a penalty instead (if you have a penalty to wisdom, for example, you have a penalty to a Perception check).
3. Is the skill listed as a class skill for any class that you have a level in? As long as it's a class skill for at least one of your classes, you get an additional +3 bonus to the skill.

There are a few other modifiers - some races get a bonus to certain skills (like elves get a +2 bonus to Perception), some items give a bonus to skill use (masterwork tools are the most affordable option there - 100 gp for a +2 bonus), and there are frequently situational modifiers that the GM will tell you about as they come up.

Now, if you're looking for suggestions as to what skills to take, I'd have three questions for you.

1. What's your class and level?
2. What are your stats?
3. What kind of role do you envision in the party?

There's also MUCH more situational modifiers like class and trait modifiers, but those don't really come up much, unless you take them specifically.

My first character is a Neutral Good Human Bard and he's starting at level 7.

I haven't put his stats in yet but here are the numbers I rolled up: 14, 13, 17, 22, 13 and 19.

I see him as a Buffer/Healer/Spellcaster.

How did you get a 22 at level 7? You could role an 18 and get your +2 human stat in Cha, but you can't add more than 1 extra stat point into anything until level 8

I rolled 4d6's.

I take it Heirophant's GM is very generous on the Point Buy scale. A bit overpowered for my tastes, but if they have fun with the game, that's all that matters.

A human bard will get 7 plus their Int modifier for skill points, plus potentially favored class bonus (though your GM may offer better from the Advanced Race Guide, so I won't factor that last point in). So you have room to play with.

First, for the skills I would rank as necessities - Perception, Spellcraft, and one Perform skill of your choice. No two ways about it; Perception is the most commonly used skill in the game. And you never worry about stepping on someone else's toes - the more Perception, the better.

Spellcraft is useful in two specific areas. One, it lets you identify magic items - score! Two, it lets you figure out what other spellcasters are doing - particularly valuable if they're using a spell that has a less obvious effect.

Having at least one Perform skill is vital for bards because of two reasons. One, it's literally your bread and butter - you can not only sing for your supper, but you can get your allies fed too. More importantly, the bardic ability Versatile Performance allows you to substitute your total Perform skill for two other skills. In particular, ones I find handy to have are Sing (can be used for Sense Motive and Bluff), Acting (can be used for Bluff and Disguise), and Wind (can be used for Diplomacy and Handle Animal). It's like you get three skills for the price of one. I sometimes like buying multiple Perform skills to take advantage of it multiple times - you get to pick one Perform type at 2nd level, and another every 4 levels after, so you could get two Perform skills to substitute.

Other skills I highly recommend:

Use Magic Device - for one thing, it's based on your charisma, which should be where that 22 goes. For another, the chance to use any magic item turns you into a multitool. I like to keep it always maxed (with a 22 charisma and max ranks devoted in it, you could have a +16 to the skill!).

Diplomacy - Getting information, getting people to be nicer to you, even haggling down prices at a shop (if your GM plays it that way)... Diplomacy is practically the signature skill for bards. There is only one reason that you'd ever want to not put points in it - if you took Keyboard, Oratory, or String as your Versatile Performance type, then you'd get to use the appropriate Perform check instead of Diplomacy. However, if you don't give speeches or play keyboard or string instruments, then you want to max this out as well.

Acrobatics - Perhaps its best use in-game is to be able to move through enemy squares without them taking attacks of opportunity against you (i.e. they get a free attack on your character if you don't use Acrobatics). Another good one to max out, although you can get around it if you take Dance for Versatile Performance.

Sense Motive & Bluff - It's good to be able to either lie or detect lies. Not as vital to keep maxed, but still useful. Again, Versatile Performance can cover for these (notably, Sing covers both, and Perform (Sing) may be the most economical Perform skill out there).

Sleight of Hand - Maybe not maxed out unless the party has no rogue, but being able to do a holdout or palm things when folks aren't looking is useful.

A few more situational ones - I'd recommend against maxing out any of them, but consider throwing a few points in there:

Linguistics - Not only getting additional languages, but analyzing writing and being able to make forged documents. Though admittedly, Neutral Good characters tend to not need that latter part.

Disguise & Stealth - Sometimes, you need to hide, though both are better left to a rogue. Versatile Performance with Acting helps cover for Disguise, though.

Appraise - The GM can and will gouge you when you attempt to sell off treasure. You don't necessarily need many points here (and Sense Motive can help mightily with haggling), but it does help.

Escape Artist - I'm not so fond of the skill, as I find few enemies want to tie me up. You may find differently, though.

Heal - Here's the thing; unlike many of the skills on this list, this is not a class skill for a bard (until level 16, but that's far off), so you won't get an additional +3 when you have a rank in it. And most of the checks you have for this skill have low DCs, so you need few points in it. Generally, you only need enough to get a +5 on your check (between ranks and Wisdom modifier), though if you plan on being the primary medic, you'll probably want to grab more... and complain at the other players for making a bard the primary medic. That said, with a +5 in the skill, you can remove caltrops from feet, double nightly healing for everyone else in the party, and have a better than 50/50 chance of stabilizing a dying companion (unless you're out of battle, in which case you can guarantee stabilization). If the party has a cleric (who really ought to have this skill), a druid, or a paladin (who probably have it as well), though, you can skip this.

Finally, a discussion of Knowledge skills.

You'll note that I never mentioned Knowledge skills above. This isn't because I have an issue with them - I love loading up on Knowledge skills. The challenge is that you don't necessarily want to show up any of your companions (especially since you're the one character class that can make any Knolwedge skill untrained, so you can make checks even when you don't take ranks), so it helps to cover the knowledge skills the others don't have. The most obvious one will likely be Knowledge (Local) - bards are often expected to take it. Beyond that, it depends on the party. All of them are class skills, so I'd ask what ones are covered by party members, and start ranking up in the ones not yet covered. You may not be able to cover every empty spot there, but you can cover an awful lot (particularly as a 7th level bard would get a +3 to all Knowledge skills on top of anything else they have).

When rolling 4d6 for your primary stats (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA), you remove the lowest roll from the total.

Yeah that's how it usually works. Even my heroic campaign limited it to using 3 of 5 dice.

Spellcraft also does something else, if you are taking item creation feats. You can substitute Spellcraft for any other craft roll, and can ignore most prerequisites by increasing the DC.

@760 is right about Spellcraft, although I did intentionally leave that off of its uses for two reasons. One, item creation is something that newer players don't get heavily into. Two, even when the character in question does favor spellcasting, bards often don't bother with item creation feats outside of Scribe Scroll (and even that seems uncommon amongst bards). In my experience, only the classes that have 9 levels of spellcasting available to them bother with such feats (and even amongst them, I find oracles and sorcerers are less frequent in their use of them than wizards, clerics, and druids, usually due to spell list restrictions).

Not to say that you can't go with the item-building bard build (particularly as I think you could use UMD to cover for spells you don't have via other magic items). Just that I'd be a bit surprised to see a newer player go that route. Heck, to be honest, I'd find it a bit eye-opening even for an experienced player.

The thing is, with a high spellcraft modifier, you don't NEED the spells. Just cash and time. I was planning a mythic item crafter Magus at one point.

Well, if you play with the rules about using Spellcraft to cover for spells you don't know, sure, though not everyone I know plays with it (House Rules and all - I'm in one game where I explicitly can't do that, although I *can* make magic items featuring spells that an ally knows if I secure their assistance - yes, this also means the Master Craftsman feat is off-limits to players in said game). And it's worth noting that, due to poor wording, it's not totally clear from the item creation rules if being able to use the spell is able to be overcome by a +5 DC to the Spellcraft check (is the wording tacked onto the "cannot be overcome by a DC penalty to Spellcraft" phrasing about the appropriate feat, or is said phrasing specifically the only exception - I would love to take a red pen to that sentence).

There is still the point about how newbies don't bother with it as much - for someone getting used to a new game with many rules, item creation frequently is seen as a "maybe when I understand what I'm doing more" subset of the rules. And we are talking with a newbie about skill selection.

On top of that, there is one point I neglected previously about why wizards are the most likely to bother with item creation - they're the class that specifically gets bonus feats which can be used on item creation feats, while most other spellcasting classes have to spend one from their usual level progression to get them (though there are a couple sorcerer bloodlines and oracle paths that can get a specific item creation feat via bonus feats, like a Deep Earth sorcerer can get Forge Ring as a bonus).

I'm not saying that you can't make an effective item-forger as any class (with the Master Artisan feat and rules about Spellcraft in place, literally anyone can pull it off). Just that, for player characters, I seldom see it outside of experienced players currently playing a wizard, a cleric, or a druid.

And yes, as I say that, I feel like I'm going to deliberately inspire people to create a crafting bard, magus, alchemist (admittedly, they're great at potion crafting... not so much with the other items), or the like, just to show how it's done.

I'm D Ming a pathfinder campaign and I was wondering if any of y'all had ideas for funny/interesting magic items that aren't as... boring... as the ones provided.

I was thinking about just such a thing a while back, items with 'drawbacks'. One was a a +1 Longsword that was intelligent, constantly lying that it was a better sword (like, say, a holy avenger). The thing was, it partially worked like the swords it lied it was, but enemies had to believe it was.

You guys should check out Dungeon World's magic items (scroll down to the bottom). They specifically have interesting effects, and a lot of them probably aren't terribly hard to replicate mechanically in Pathfinder. If nothing else, they're good for inspiration.

I was thinking of organising to play an RPG with some friends of mine and figured a pathfinder adventure path would be the easiest thing to do. Could some one recommend one to me, bearing in mind none of us have any real experience playing RP Gs.

I've heard good things in general about the adventure paths, although I admit to not playing them myself (I've been in 3 PF games, and in each case, the GM preferred to make their own campaign world).

From what I hear, the ones that are more horror-tinged are for more experienced players, so I'd steer away from those for now. Other than that, best of luck and I hope you all enjoy the game.

After careful(hardly any) consideration I've decided to go with The Crypt of The Everflame.

Good choice? Bad choice? thoughts?

And thank you, Mr. 32, for your advice.

edited 14th Jun '14 2:53:57 PM by simooo713

It's a good starting mod. If your players enjoy it, you can follow up with Masks of the Living God and City of Golden Death, as they form a linked story with it.

I know, that's a big part of the appeal for me.

So, I got to run a game this Saturday, since our regular DM was busy. Improvised a chess set for a grid system.

@769 I did a quick look into the particular path you chose, and I've heard good things about it overall. At this point, all that's left is to wish your group an enjoyable game.

@772 I can only hope at least one person said "hey, why are we the pawns?"

Meanwhile, in my Sunday night Pathfinder game, I've decided to start recording rolls. Since our group is scattered across three states (Massachusetts, Florida, and Texas), we've had to resort to Roll20 to play. Our rolls have, in general, been so bad, we're looking at various Game-Breaker builds just to survive. The GM complained that I personally made an encounter "too easy" because my alchemist managed to use the stink bomb discovery to render a foe nauseated for 4 rounds. Keep in mind that said foe still nearly killed two party members via passive abilities while nauseated. One of those party members was me, so had it saved against the nausea, a party wipe seemed likely.

I just can't get over how frequently ones pop up on the dice (I have a freaking +13 to save against diseases, and a freaking dire rat still managed to infect me thanks to a blown save). It's like they built the rolling algorithm on that cursed die from Full Frontal Nerdity.

Pawns were NP Cs. There were enough pieces to go around.

Please tell Me someone made a joke about the king being useless

thanks, just have to get it organised now.

edited 16th Jun '14 3:31:53 PM by simooo713