Women's Issues

I'm not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK people have been known to get Caesarean sections to avoid the pain of childbirth. Of course, as NHS Choices notes, a Caesarean is not exactly an easy thing in itself.

edited 22nd Sep '14 10:00:03 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

??? That was what the NY Times comment was about. Paternity insurance is basically (more) economical support for the kid.

Honestly, I am always going to vote for measures that provides for support for unwanted kids. I also like that the measure is a huge deterrent to irresponsible behavior, on the male side. Since females are more pressured by society to not get pregnant, I want more pressure on the guys to not get the girls pregnant.

Anyway, the moral question of Abortion has already been answered by unfortunate truths about nature. It's basically like what happens to the majority of baby turtles and baby kittens and baby puppies and baby chicks, etc.

edited 22nd Sep '14 10:04:15 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

You can just adopt one.

edited 22nd Sep '14 10:00:31 AM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

I appreciate your views, that we need to encourage men not to get women pregnant as well. I think this attitude would be beneficial for both genders.

• First, it eases the attitude that women are walking incubators. That's something that needs to be burned with fire. Women do not need to have babies to be women or have use.

• Second, it allows men to be seen as responsible parents and active participants in creating life. Yes, it takes two. This would also give more credit to fathers in general, it would also force men to be responsible and contemplate their role in procreation more, hopefully leading to more responsible choices and activities.

• Third, it would open the discussion to the modern structure of family and what can be done to improve it. It's a more inclusive conversation that would hopefully lead to more complete problem solving.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Abortion is just very tragic matter. Roman Catholic country (here) = hospitals bullying women whom they suspect of having an abortion. Yeah, that includes women who have (natural spontaneous) miscarriages.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

That was just a small part of it. "Pressure" is not the same as legal requirements to follow certain misandrist procedures, which means either (likely) permanent physical harm with an increased risk of worse complications, or a mandatory fee and other required stuff for not wanting that. Just for being male.

If things are bad for women, the solution isn't to make it worse for men. It's to make it better for women. Give them their rightful choices instead of restricting the men's.

If I'm reading the same comment, that is.

Nothing should be mandatory for either sex specifically for being that sex (if an equivalent isn't mandatory for the other sex).

Education, for both sexes, on the other hand, I definitely support, whether it's in split classes or not. Knowledge is important.

edited 22nd Sep '14 10:29:59 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!

I understand. Here there are radical laws that in some states would have forced a woman to prove she miscarried instead of having an abortion and it's just horrible.

Even if she did, that is no one's business any more than any other medical procedure.

edited 22nd Sep '14 10:33:41 AM by Gabrael

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

That's a good example of what I want better for women. Why have sexist laws like that?

Check out my fanfiction!

The source of the stigma is religion. Look at European abortion laws. The ones with the most restrictive ones are Ireland and Poland. Which are also the most religious ones.

And the religions hold that a woman's place is to have babies and be a mother. But even in more secular populations such as various American states, it's still anathema for women to say that they don't want children or to try and get sterilization.

Religion and culture are very much connected, but religion is just a component of culture therefore it's not the sole reason why women are judged.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

I just googled it, and I think Gabrael is right. According to Wikipedia, at least, abortion wasn't considered inherently "wrong" in the ancient world. It was wrong if the father's rights were infringed (wives and children were typically the husband's property, after all).

Isn't it Ireland and Malta? Malta is the only country in the EU to ban abortion entirely, and Ireland only allows it if the woman's life is in danger. Poland at least lets you get an abortion if the pregnancy was the result of a rape, or if the foetus is severely deformed.

And Ireland isn't really religious, to be fair.

edited 22nd Sep '14 12:22:58 PM by QueenPanic

The NY Times comment opened with, "I have A Modest Proposal."

You guys are taking it way too seriously.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Poland is something of a special case as well; the prohibition of abortion was a response to its legalization during the Communist era, which was part of a grand strategy to weaken and degrade the Catholic Church (and by extension Polish culture) on the part of the PZPR (and by extension, their masters in Moscow). The response became mixed up not just in religious/feminist issues but also in the idea of reclaiming an authentic Polish identity after decades of oppression. The recent hubbub over "gender ideologies" OTOH...

Incidentally, according to wiki "Unlike in other countries where abortion is banned, women in Poland are not subject to a penalty for illegal termination of pregnancy." Not sure what this means - is abortion just not provided or is it a criminal offence? Who then is punished if women get a termination? The abortionist?

edited 22nd Sep '14 12:48:59 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Looks like it yeah.

Understandable, but is a mistake to turn to nature as a source of one's morality. Nature is called a mother for a reason

hashtagsarestupid

A mother who cannibalizes her young, sure.

I can't really see a compelling argument against allowing women the right to choose.

As noted further up, the primary source of the stigma is religious. Personally, I feel that if someone is really that worried about the spiritual fate of unborn children, they should probably put more faith in God/the gods/the reincarnation cycle/etc. to handle the matter fairly.

As for non-religious objections to abortion...well, I suppose there's the whole "A woman's place is to bear children!" shpeal, but that should just be ignored outright for reasons that are fairly obvious. What other non-religious objections are there?

edited 22nd Sep '14 6:34:48 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

There are non-religious objections but I'd rather not go to discussion on this thread.

Anyway what did everyone think to Hermoine's speech?

hashtagsarestupid

Well, for one thing, Emma Watson's name isn't Hermione and her speech is coming partially in response to being treated as nothing more than a character.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Having trouble seeing the point of your post. Are you trying to tell me that I should go back to being anti-abortion?

Cause if you are, right now, it's just not going to work. I've already seen (too many) arguments from both sides.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

From the snippets I've seen,it's exactly what is needed here and now.

Hah.

No I haven't heard any reason to believe Emma Waston resents or feels limited by her breakout role. From what I heard she looks up to the character.

I suppose we should mention that that hackers have claimed they are gonna release photos on her as well. But I think it's safe to say it's an empty bluff or they would of done it by now.

I'm not, I know better then to try. I just don't believe Appeal to Nature is good argument either way myself. PM if want discus it.

hashtagsarestupid

Being refered to as Hermione rather than her name is something she's brought up many times in interviews as something she finds irritating and devaluing of her. She can look up to the character without people wanting to ignore her in favour of it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I'm not using "nature is heartless" to justify abortion.

The main reason why I "tolerate" abortion is because it is impossible to take (proper) care of every conceived life. We already have too much trouble getting (too little) support for the children (already) born, unwanted or wanted. Not to mention that our environment is stressed (way more than) enough already what with human overpopulation.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Sadly. But I think you're right, possibly especially from the ones whose mothers didn't abort them but did abort other children. Sadly, it seems like most of the people who protest abortion also are against sex in any fashion other than their own. That too. Hopefully the rapidly increasing population will get some of the protestors to back the hell off. You mean how the people most vocal against abortions are usually the same people vocally protesting food stamps, welfare, and unemployment? Even if they're benefiting from it at the time?

In other supremely depressing news, an Alabama school district is being sued after a teacher convinced a student to act as "bait" to try and catch a student they believed was a rapist - and, unsurprisingly, she ended up being raped. Departments of both Justice and Education have filed briefs supporting the family. The teacher in question resigned, but the vice principals who were in on the plan are still employed and one of them has been promoted.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

Schild und Schwert der Partei