[Controversial Topic]Could politicians be considered psychopaths?

I don't think politicians are psychopaths. I think that it might be easier for a sociopath to become a politician, but I doubt that they are all crazy. If we're going to diagnose politicians with any mental disorder, it might be narcissism or something.

More like functioning psychotics/sociopaths. I would also include most people in business management positions.

Trump delenda est

Even Low/Middle Managers?

I am not an alcoholic, says MP Eric Joyce: MPs have problems, just like everyone else...

Keep Rolling On

Just now getting back to this thread— It's quite a generalization, yes and I'm not sure what type of research he'd conducted— the thing is, many the traits that mark people as psychopaths are those you people tend to look for or find in leaders and the rich and powerful. Reduced fear, a superficial charm, manipulative behavior*

, lack of empathy, irresponsibility or impulsiveness*

(see: sex scandals)

, lack of remorse. It's not that politicians/authority figures are usually psychopaths, it's that there's an overlap in the personality traits you find in both groups, so it stands to reason that the number of psychopaths would be higher than in the general population.

edited 7th Apr '13 2:47:42 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

The point I was getting at earlier is that throwing out names of mental disorders at any group of people you don't like is just really stupid. And lazy, again. Sharing traits with a particular group of people doesn't mean you're one of them.

And there's leaders that have the opposites of those traits as well. Or excercises different traits at different times; being cautious in one situation and then impulsive in another.

Seriously, unless a significant group of politicians lets themselves be part of an official study for this I'm not going to take any observation as conclusive proof.

This isn't about psychopathy being a necessary prerequisite for politics, or even politics itself causing psychopathy. It's about not being surprised at an unusual concentration of psychopaths in positions of power relative to the surrounding populace when you have poor oversight and regularly reward remorseless business and manipulation of constituency for long periods of time.

edited 7th Apr '13 4:11:12 PM by Pykrete

"Any man who wants to be president is either an egomaniac or crazy" - Eisenhower.

While not all Politicians are sociopaths, many of them do exhibit traits that sociopaths possess. Which partially explains the Bubble that many politicians seem to live in (putting forward concepts and laws that no-one asked for nor wanted)

I do find it interesting though that Intelligent people with Sociopaths/Psychopaths tendicies tend to become Businessmen and Managers and whatnot.

Edits are edits.

edited 7th Apr '13 8:40:14 PM by PippingFool

I'm having to learn to pay the price

The bubble that they live in is caused by their wealth and power, not by a mental predisposition. And it is shared by others who live at that level of wealth that don't seek political power. To say that this explains the bubble they live completely ignores the social interactions that are occurring.

Touche

I'm having to learn to pay the price

I think it's a little naive to chalk up all of it to that. If you reward a lack of empathy in the gritty backroom details of politics, even on accident, you're naturally going to see more seats filled with people who have a clinical lack of empathy than you'd expect from a cross-section of the surrounding demographic.

Pretty much.

edited 7th Apr '13 8:57:55 PM by Pykrete

It's not an either/or situation. It's pretty hard to deny that wealth and power have resulted in an information bubble among our leaders. It is also pretty hard to deny that there's a strong selective pressure in North American politics that rewards ruthless opportunism and a lack of empathy.

Unfortunately, the effects of those factors are cumulative.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

To say a politician is a psychopath or sociopath is to say they cannot understand others feelings. Clearly, the more likely case is they choose not to.

edited 7th Apr '13 9:22:17 PM by EditorPallMall

Keep it breezy!

@Taoist: First of all, a lot of positions don't reward many forms of opportunism. A company or bureaucracy, for instance, is going to have someone at the top who often notices and corrects opportunistic behavior. Any good organization has made sure that everyone there is a team player. Legislatures tend not to be good organizations, but that's a different matter.

And lack of empathy? What a silly idea. First of all, nobody rewards you for a lack of empathy. Maybe you could make the case that politicians are rewarded for not acting on that empathy...but even that's a stretch.

In fact, there's very little reason to be in politics besides some form of empathy/ideology. Sure, you could make the case that a lot of these people are power-hungry. And you'd have a point. But how many politicians wield actual power? Not a lot...nowhere near a majority. And it's not like they're making money. A lot of people actually choose politics because they want to help their countrymen, and it's for that reason that I resent it when people, in a cynical moment of disestablishmentarianism, toss out these blanket accusations.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

I dunno what companies you work for, but we need more of them. For the rest of us, unless they're straight-up stealing from company coffers, those people tend to become supervisors.

edited 7th Apr '13 10:00:21 PM by Pykrete

I wouldn't call it cynicism (more on that in a second), and no-one (or almost no-one) is saying that all politicians are psychopaths.

You are rewarded for a lack of empathy in certain situations. Politics can be one of them, especially given how "us vs. them" American politics have gotten, seeing the other party's point of view and acknowledging it as valid is tantamount to treason. A lack of empathy =/= being sadistic, it's merely the inability to identify with the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of others. Or, as it's known in politics, not backing down from your party's values.

That's not to mention the other psychopathic traits that are certainly rewarded. Experts at manipulation. Possessing a superficial charm. Lack of fear. Lack of . Some of the other, more negative traits, such as lack of remorse and impulsiveness aren't necessarily rewarded, but neither are they punished.

As for it being cynical to say that politicians are in it for themselves— I can see how you could see it that way. From over here though, it's optimism. The only alternative is that they're so inept at helping people it's indistinguishable from malice. And that's far more depressing than them just being selfish, possibly psychopathic, people in a position of power.

edited 7th Apr '13 10:24:03 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Ultra, I think you're missing the idea that "team player" can include "those guys aren't on our team, so why should we care that such and such is having a negative effect on them?" Or "just throw money at it so they'll shut up and we won't get in trouble." They'll use wealth to cushion themselves from the consequences.

Now, while I certainly think that's incredibly dickish and selfish and socially reinforcing, I don't necessarily think it's indicative of individuals having a mental disorder.

Found the guest I was talking about— It was Jon Ronson, author of The Psychopath Test. It seems I vastly overstated the numbers when I was talking about it earlier— What he actually said was "One out of 100 regular people walking around are psychopaths, say psychologists. 25% of the prison population are psychopaths, but 4% of corporate chiefs are psychopaths." So, a much larger amount than the normal population, but not like a majority or anything.

edited 7th Apr '13 10:49:27 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

What Pykrete said, with the added caveat that they're not allowed to loot the company coffers because that's what the executives and directors are doing, and they don't like competition. Seriously, I burst out laughing at "corrects opportunistic behaviour". Have you not been paying attention to the financial sector for the last ten years? Which is why Chris Christie's presidential aspirations have been sunk for showing gratitude to President Obama when the latter dropped by to support hurricane relief. And why Republicans in the Northeast were completely ignored by their own party when the House and a good deal of the Senate stonewalled that relief just to keep the president from looking good, supported by a base whose members would on occasion state that this was justified because that could lead to fewer voters in blue states. If you have two politicians, one who wants to actually help his or her fellow citizens, and the other who just wants personal power, and they have to compete, who will win? Which one will follow the rules of fair play, and which one will try to subvert democracy for their victory? Which one is more likely to enter politics with a fat war chest and get contributions from wealthy agendas? That's how a selective pressure works. That's why we have a great big ol Tea Party Caucus and only one Bernie Sanders.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

But that is just for the US. How does it work for other countries, countries with less money in their Politics? Are there possibly the same number of psychopaths and psudo-psychopaths in their systems? Is it the same in Local/Regional Politics?

Keep Rolling On

Well, I don't think they are outright psychopaths (I tend to think their boat people policy to be misguided rather than malice), but here in Aus we politicians don't come with intelligence (well, most of them anyway).

I point you to the current Prime Minister of Canada. His party stole a majority government by misleading voters about voting times and locations, and the investigation into this behaviour has been stonewalled at every turn. Scandals during his tenure include:

• the Afghan prisoner torture scandal in which it was revealed that we were knowingly and willingly handing over prisoners (captured and classified as enemy combatants with no evidence of course) to local forces that openly used torture,
• ministers like Bev Oda breaking the law and parliamentary regulation by altering official documents after completion,
• the casual dismissal of native concerns and federal mismanagement while people freeze and starve in First Nations territories,
• unprecedented cronyism in handing over public natural resources to the energy industry while handing the taxpayer the bill for the cleanups that occur when said industries face no federal regulation or oversight
• outright bribery of a senior, seriously ill Member of Parliament with life insurance for his family
• fiscal mismanagement to the tune of billions of dollars of waste, concealed at every turn (his finance minister, the former provincial finance minister of Ontario, is actually infamous for exactly this act of accumulating record debts and concealing them until his party loses the election).

So. That's two countries. But maybe it's a North American thing; anyone else?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

[[blockquote]] I'd personally think there's way too much negative stigma to psychopathy. Yes, they tend to be manipulative, shallow and can't instinctively feel or care for other people. But, if given the right attention I'm of the belief that they can function just as well as normal people. [[\blockquote]]

Only if they wanted you to feel that.

Mick Philpotts is a classic psychopath - That ISN'T including the arson/manslaughter.

Do the job in front of you.

It's [[quoteblock]] text [[/quoteblock]]

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Yes, but it helps cement the diagnosis.

edited 8th Apr '13 4:32:26 PM by Euodiachloris

People tend to think Sociopathy/Psychopathy automatically means superb schemers.

Low Impulse Control = Bad Long Term Planning.