Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

Well according to those assholes treating female characters with any amount of respect is pandering.

Pandering to women, right ?

Well, if they want to label most of the top-grossing movies as pandering to women, I'll just roll with it.

"Would you seriously argue that the Max we see at the beginning of the movie, who tries to leave the brides at Joe's mercy and then forces Furiosa at gunpoint to drive the truck for him; is exactly the same as the Max at the ending of the movie, who puts himself in danger by suggesting a better plan to defeat Joe, and then donates his blood to keep Furiosa alive?"

No, just that the reason he dosent help furiosa is more simple: he just dosent care because is really riff between Furiosa and Inmortal, is final third of the movie when Max actually show change by doing sometime even if could survive otherwise.

"I can't help but feel that this problem is on you, not the movie. Of course"

....Sure, is not that what always happen are review or critic to movies? I supose you are saying to dismish my post by implying I have some issue with it but its not, My only critic is that Mad visions let to nothing(and aparenly was resolve in some videogame...damn) sometimes it feel he is a soporting chararter and other the plot divace that shoot bullet. but othat than that the movie is awsome

The word pandering is use very freely here(not surprising) but yeah, Mad max is female heavy and some people cant just take it, such is life.

I was not particularly keen on the last Mission Impossible movie, really. I mean. She is practically a hostage from beggining to end. The damsel in distress trope applies even when she is not locked in a cage in bowsers castle. She has a sword of damocles over her all the time.

We don't need to encourage it being called pandering.

We shouldn't bow using proper language to assuage people who are encouraging negative roles and gender situations that are dangerous to both men and women.

HEY, Im using my brother's acc real quick bc I do not have one...

I need to write an essay on gender roles in the Odyssey and how it reflects on the culture that produced this story. Im in ninth grade so this doesn't need to be a college level essay. I have some ideas like,

feminine "evil" personifies as feminine monsters like Scylla, Calypso, Circe, and the sirens, which reflects on the misogyny of the time. I just need some more ideas on what I can add onto it because right now, it doesn't seem very complete

edited 29th Sep '15 5:01:37 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Is there a thread about LGBT representation in the media? I heard that Mad Max the video game is very good with LGBT characters, presenting them as normal by not shoving it in your face, just letting you know through tidbits throughout the game. Stuff like 'would you like to see your wife again' being told to a female, or a male character being attracted to you whether you chose a male or female character.

For some reason, I'm trying to imagine someone who's never heard of sexualities other than hetero (not a gay-hater, just doesn't even know the concept of 'gayness' or anything LGBT-related) playing this game.

Just realized something so I'm clarifying.

I'm not saying that "we" just ignore it. If you and others want to criticize it, I'm not stopping you. If it seems like that, no.

It's just that to me personally, it's not worth my time to rebuke. Though actually, I am rebuking it, just in a very lazy way since I'm relatively OK with how most of the top 20 movies are handling women.

I saw the trailer for The Intern. It seems to show an old man asking a young woman to give him a non-sexual(?) massage (in front of his co-workers and pretty much everyone in the office where they were). When the woman massages him, the sexual part of it is played up (hands going down the waist as the camera follows, etc).

When the massage is over and the woman leaves, the old man takes a sheet of paper and fans himself, in an obvious 'lust heat' manner.

I'm not sure how I should react to this, though I do wonder what it'll be like if it was a young man/old woman thing.

To bring up video games again...sad truth is sadly funny.

"The school of satire by playing it all straight", as Yahtzee once said.

Admittedly this article isn't fiction per se, but it's the kind of thing that I can almost picture in certain areas/subcultures of fiction. Especially ones with Jewish Mothers. Added Pot Holes but I probably missed a few.

I wanna point and laugh at this ridiculousness, but even with the explanation it's still wrong thread.

I'll just add that the "sunny places = more sex" thing is actually true. Sun rays give you Vitamin D and it's called Vitamin D for a reason.

edited 3rd Oct '15 4:34:35 AM by Luminosity

Sunny places also mean better mood overall, and less clothing.

I just want to say, that while I can understand why they would.... Telling people to get busy makes me hella uncomfortable.

edited 3rd Oct '15 10:38:54 AM by Imca

-Laughs-

Latino immigrants are the solution!

Funny thing... the government has to do something when birth rates fall, otherwise the country will run out of people. Phrased better than I did.

Bringing in the topic of fanservice from another thread, because I want to expand beyond anime and manga.

Do you think fanservice is okay and can continue, or should be stopped? Or should there only be some amount of fanservice?

What is fanservice anyway? Should it be called fanservice when it appears to be not for fans, but fot advertising and drawing in potential viewers? Is fanservice a problem only when it's senseless (including 'writers made an excuse that falls apart on closer examination' - Quiet from Metal Gear Solid, anyone?) and/or demeaning?

edited 4th Oct '15 7:17:24 AM by hellomoto

Birth rates falling doesn't mean the country will run out of people.

It means the country is running out of economically active work force and people to sustain the pensions of the aging non working population.

I swear, this thread might as well be renamed Fanservice Thread for all the constant identical discussions of it.

None of the above.

"Fanservice should be stopped" is ridiculous, prude, and sexist. Sexuality is normal and there's nothing inherently bad about depicting it in fiction, like it or not. And sexuality for the sake of sexuality is also normal, as long as it's honest and mature(consent etc). Opinions like this "stopping" thing encourage slut shaming. homophobia(in cases of male fanservice) and censorship. I doubt you or anyone else here seriously means that, though.

That doesn't mean that fanservice is always okay. Tropes Are Tools and fanservice has the potential to turn bad just as it can be good. Bad things fanservice does are, like most feminist critiques, are about the broader scope at large.

Fanservice today is pushed into 90% of age-appropriate works, no matter how little it can get away with in most of them. That enforces unfortunate stereotyping and leaves people who'd like a break from fanservice(even I feel that way sometimes) with... nothing. And it harms fanservice itself, because such broad inclusion forces it to be spread too thin, and become tame and uncreative.

There certainly needs to be a somewhat greater amount of works without fanservice, but the existing fanservice also needs to evolve and accept mature things like consent and initiative, instead of things like Power Girl Syndrome(one day, one day it'll be a trope).

There also needs to be some care in both critiquing(otherwise your critique turns into mere prudery) and defending fanservice(otherwise you'll be reinforcing the sexist stereotypes and no progress will be accomplished).

edited 4th Oct '15 8:08:12 AM by Luminosity

I agree mostly especially the critiquing fanservice part. Also, there needs to be understanding of the context and the simulacra of fanservice being used.

"existing fanservice also needs to evolve and accept mature things like consent and initiative"

Pretty much my point of view, though when I hear the word 'fanservice' I default to 'senseless demeaning fanservice'.

I find that sexiness tends to get applied in the Men Act, Women Are way. Women wear clothes with cutouts to show off lots of skin, coupled with impossibly large breasts, overly small waists, and spine-snapping Boobs And Butts poses. The sexiness of a man, however, has very little to do with his appearance.

What is Power Girl syndrome, by the way?

trying to justify blatant fanservice with narrative reasons in a way that highlights that same fact and makes it hard to accept it, i would assume.

Quick and dirty test:

https://www.randomlists.com/random-video-games

0 lll (no females/no humanoids/very few characters/family-friendly games/I have no idea where to put the game/etc) Braid Mario Spyro WWF Wrestle Mania: The Arcade Game Pharaoh's Tomb TNA iMPACT! 2 NFL 2K

1 (... huh, I got more when I used the Random media button on Tvtropes. 2 out of 2.)

2 ll Metroid (Is Samus the only female character there?) Valkyria Chronicles II (lots of female chars, quite a bit of japanese fanservice)

3 llll/

Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas Left 4 Dead 2 WCW Backstage Assault (uses real wrestlers, males and females equally undressed xD) Chrono Cross Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 Call of Duty Fable II The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings

"existing fanservice also needs to evolve and accept mature things like consent and initiative"

Except many people want a fanservice free game because is just pointless, even if women concent is just a way the game have to said "everything is ok so stop nagging me about it" and even if is good that is MSK 3 Mantra kind of away: it just there and is good for the audience.