Is this an example?

context: Magnum Opus was recently changed to In Universe Examples Only

When doing a quick check on the last few Magnum Opus examples, I noticed a couple of misused examples were re-added. So, to avoid potential edit war disputes, I'd like to get an clear handle on the following:

1. If a creator has claimed a work (or upcoming work) to be their Magnum Opus, does it count as in-universe?

2. Suppose the creator is a youtuber. In other words: they are an integral part of their own work. If they make a claim about a Magnum Opus in a youtube video, does this fall under in-universe?

2b: Corollary: same situation, but suppose the statement is not made on a youtube video, but through another channel (such as a forum or a blog). Does this make a difference?

1. Always no.
2. If they make it in character.
3. It makes a difference. They are far less likely to be in character elsewhere.

edited 1st May '16 3:39:17 AM by war877

Examples of Word of God stating that they consider a work to be their best can go under Creator's Favorite Episode.

Basically:

• If the Nostalgia Critic says in one of his videos that Suburban Knights is the greatest thing he's ever made, it qualifies.
• If Doug Walker says in a blog or non-NC video that he considers Suburban Knights to be the greatest thing the Nostalgia Critic character has ever been used for, it does not.

To be listed, Magnum Opus must be a character's greatest work, not a creator's - but a creator may appear in-universe as a character.

edited 1st May '16 10:27:28 AM by TobiasDrake

Reposting these:

YMMV.Seconds:

• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Considering the story's themes of accepting the consequences of one's actions and moving on, Be Careful What You Wish For, and the implication that her ex had somewhat of a dark side that never amounted to much, the protagonist being back together with him in the end comes across as slightly undermining the premise of the story.

TimeRiders:

• And I Must Scream: Chaos space. It messes up your mind if you get stuck there, tricking you into believing you have spent millenia in a place without anything to see, hear, or feel.

Never mind.

edited 1st May '16 11:10:30 PM by Karxrida

While fixing/merging duplicate Detective Conan entries in Just a Kid, I wanted to add one of my own. But I'm not sure if it counts as a subversion, inversion, or Playing with a Trope in some other way:

• An anime only episode plays with the trope when a culprit recognizes that Ai Haibara, a shrunken teenager like Shinichi, is more intelligent and mature than the average seven-year-old. The culprit tries to take advantage of this by kidnapping her and setting up a situation where Ai's observations when speaking to police later will help the culprit's alibi. It works until Conan is able to see through the deception.

That doesn't say anything about the actual trope, though.

There are probably more details about the situation that would indeed involve the trope, which sgamer82 may be unconsciously taking for granted due to familiarity with the character and the particular situation in that example.

FWIW, Ai Haibara is an 18-year-old Teen Genius stuck in the body of an 7/8-year-old girl. I would hazard a guess that the culprit is exploiting the dissonance between her actual intelligence and her physical age to throw off the police off his tracks, by having them disbelieve her simply because it's too farfetched for a preteen to be able to reach such conclusions (which happens several times in the story, to the protagonist Conan mostly, hence why he's forced to tranquilize an adult and speak "through" them with his voice-changing gadget).

There's also two other entries on the trope for main character Conan and his teenage self Shinichi to establish the trope.

Though this does help me decide where it falls. I can probably call it an inversion and add a line noting that, rather than dismiss what is, to the culprit, a child with above average intellect, they set out to exploit it.

Here a second draft. (Well, third note that I'm reminded of Exploited Trope)

• An anime only episode has a culprit not only recognize that Ai Haibara, a shrunken Teen Genius like Shinichi/Conan, is more intelligent and mature than the average seven-year-old, but seek to exploit that rather than dismiss it. The culprit kidnaps her and sets up a situation where Ai's observations when speaking to police later will help the culprit's alibi. The detectives take Ai at face value, since to them she's Just a Kid and being honest anyway, and she's detailed enough in what she notices to do exactly what the culprit was aiming for until Conan was able to Pull the Thread.

edited 2nd May '16 5:37:01 AM by sgamer82

... Isn't that Exploited Trope instead of Inverted Trope?

It is now that I realize Exploited Trope is a Thing.

Hence why since a while ago I started to make a point of revisiting Playing with a Trope every now and then. I would've noticed Downplayed Trope (yes, that's a thing too) sooner if I did so in the first place.

edited 2nd May '16 6:00:05 AM by MarqFJA

Downplayed trope is not a thing how most people use it though. Too many people use it to ignore all the criteria of a trope and shorhorn it in anyway because it's kinda closeish if you squint.

Downplayed Trope is, thus, one of the worst of the Playing with a Trope types in terms of how it invites Trope Decay.

X 11. Could someone take a look at the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot and And I Must Scream examples that I posted above.

Just a Kid: I'm not sure that's the trope, though. Close, but not quite. It's not so much dismissing the importance of the chararacter as it's assuming the character isn't lying. It seems closer to exploiting Children Are Innocent (and that's a trope description that could probably use some trimming) or something like that.

As for Downplayed Trope, I've always interpreted that as tropes that are full examples, but maybe implicit instead of explicit, in the background instead of upfront, or otherwise more subtle examples. And those variations aren't explicitly excluded from the trope.

edited 2nd May '16 8:02:08 AM by AnotherDuck

I'm growing inclined to agree, especially since the idea is being actively exploited by the antagonist in question to establish an alibi. I may pull the entry off Just a Kid and add it to your suggestion of Children Are Innocent.

That's what downplayed trope should be. All the criteria, just not in your face. Instead people use it to ignore criteria and call it downplaying it.

I've removed my example and am going to add it to Children Are Innocent, alongside a probably more relevant example. My current draft:

• Detective Conan:
  • Ayumi, Mitsuhiko, and Genta are three first grade children who latch themselves onto teenager-turned-child Conan early in the story. As a result, they've been present for more than a few of the murders that occur whenever Conan is around. Despite this, they are still shown to retain their innocent and cheerful demeanors even as they try, with mixed success, to help Conan crack a case.
  • An anime-only story has a murderer attempt to exploit this trope. The culprit had previously met Ai Haibara, also a teenager-turned-child, with her guardian Professor Agasa and noticed she was more intelligent than the average seven year-old. The culprit proceeds to kidnap Ai and pretend to be a kidnap victim alongside her. The plan was to deflect suspicion and establish an alibi for murder by using Ai's intelligence to ensure that her testimony of where she was held would be sufficiently detailed while her being a child would ensure the honesty of her testimony would not be questioned.

Not sure if, in the second portion, the solution to the case is relevant to the entry or would just make it bloated. Specifically, adding that this trick was establishing the alibi by having Ai held in two identical-looking locations without being aware of it so the killer could commit the murder in one place and return to the other with the main witness none the wiser)

That seems much more like an actual example. I'd remove the reference to Agasa, who doesn't seem relevant to the example. I'd also rewrite the example to use the same tense everywhere. Use past or present tense; don't mix. (Do we have any guide for that normally?)

@hellomoto, in this case, a marksman firing with iron sights takes a very-long-range shot at the enemy commander, who is watching said marksman through a spotting scope. The bullet travels down the scope, hitting the commander in the eye.

I have a question. In Shadowchasers: Ascension, Duke Belphagon has a special enchantment that lets him instantly create a perfect counter to the opponents deck. However, if the opponent has absolutely no idea what their own deck even is, then Belphagon has to use his default deck.

Would this be an example of an inverted Runs on Ignorance?

edited 2nd May '16 10:29:36 PM by Kingofsouls

Just seems like mindreading not being possible on someone who doesn't know what you're trying to find out.

How to Write an Example — Write in present tense