Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

1. Outer Rim planets. The Jedi protect the Republic; Tatooine is not part of the Republic. Ending slavery there would require the Republic getting into an all out war with the Hutts, which would end up costing way more lives, especially since the Jedi aren't an army. It's just flat out dumb to march into the Outer Rim and trying to give them orders.

2. The problem here is they went against the rules: their rules. That isn't a fault of the Order, it's a fault of the individuals. Had they obeyed the rules that so many always try to vilify, the Order would still be around and the galaxy wouldn't have had to go through 23 years of Empire tyranny.

3. Peace is relative. Without the Jedi there's chaos and nobody to maintain order. The galaxy is better off with the Jedi than without, much like society is better off with a police force than without one.

edited 5th May '15 4:11:11 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

That's a very unfair way of judging things. Jedi are not omnipotent. The Hutt cartels can rival the Republic in terms of power, and the Outer Rim is very feeble in terms of government. It's quite likely the Jedi trying to free the slaves would lead to more loss of life than anything.

In fact I'm quite certain it is the case. Clone Wars has a storyarc focusing on the reemergance of a slaver empire, and the arc's villain makes a few comments about how the Jedi annihilated all slaver empires from the earth. The Outer Rims slavery is The Remnant, left where it is, presumably, due issues of logistics.

Which they made an effort to emancipate. Almost every Jedi-clone interaction has the Jedi instigating the clones to think for themselves and assume their own identities.

That is a matter of debate. Obi-Wan had romantic feelings as well (clone wars deals with a past flame of his), but he handled them admirably. His loved one even dies on his arms and he maintains a cool head. It's likely Anakin just had a troubled temperament in any case.

Peace in the sense of "not any major wars". The Galaxy didn't have any civil wars for a thousand years which the Jedi watched over the galaxy. There were minor planetary wars, at most, but no major galactic war, which is why Palpatine says he won't let this Republic which stood for a thousand years let be split in two.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

@Cruherrx

1)"Ending slavery there would require the Republic getting into an all out war with the Hutts, which would end up costing way more lives"

I'm sure 1000 years will give you an opportunity to do something about it. And it would only cost more lives in the short term. After a thousand years it would surely have paid off.

2) You really think Anakin not being trained would have saved them? And no, their rules where dumb. Luke was ten years older and it didn't affect him negatively at all.

3) It's Star Wars. There will always be wars, with or without the Jedi. Also, the Empire did maintain order without the Jedi.

@Gaon

1)I never watched Clone Wars so I don't know about that. But point taken.

2)Still commanding a salve army. And the movies didn't show emancipation help at all.

3)No, it just means they won all wars not that there weren't any.

But I see you guys like the Jedi so lets just rest it here. You may refute my points though if you like.

edited 5th May '15 4:27:09 PM by Antiteilchen

Didn't the Empire maintain order by basically turning every planet they controlled into a Police State and enslaving non-human species?

Are you trolling?

1. There's no reason to drag the whole Republic into a war they very well may lose over planets that don't fall in their jurisdiction. That's ridiculous.

2. Anakin not being taken in would've meant Naboo getting occupied by Separatists, which would've meant Palpatine wouldn't have become chancellor. Whatever hypothetical plans he makes from there, he won't have an Apprentice on the caliber of Darth Vader to spread his rule across the Galaxy.

3. This is why I asked if you were trolling. Because that logic makes little sense. I guess we should disband the police force because random murders still happen, neglecting the fact that without them there'd be far more.

The Jedi treated the clones as equals, as opposed to the other members of the Republic command. Various expanded media, even the ones canon under Disney display this. Just because you choose to not embrace this information doesn't mean it stops existing.

Also it was shown in the opening of Episode 3 where Anakin risks his life to save a Clone.

Yeah, don't do that. I've mentioned many times that the Old Order wasn't perfect, but it had its merits. Then I went on to say if they followed the rules, a lot of stuff would've been avoided. This has nothing to do with "like" or whatever.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

Who's to say what would have become of Anakin had the Jedi not taken him in? One would think Palps would have swooped in at some point in a world where Anakin wasn't at Obi-wan's side for a decade.

Palpatine would not have been aware of Anakin till he began his Jedi training. Also, the only rule that was a problem for the Old Jedi was the whole "Thou Shall Not Love" thing.

Anakin would've likely died in slavery at some point. He's a slave kid on Tatooine.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

No, i'm saying if Qui-Gon had brought him but the Jedi had said no.

He could also be killed by Sebulba, that podracer who tries to kill him in Episode 1.

Back to Tatooine? In that case, he'd probably be there when Cliegg Lars buys and frees Shmi Skywalker, then marries her.

edited 5th May '15 4:58:48 PM by higherbrainpattern

All things considered, Watto was far from the worst master we've seen in the series. Anakin was a skilled slave too, not one of the chattel, meaning going by real life he could've had some perks other slaves didn't. I doubt Watto would work him to death.

Okay I answer.

I'm not trolling. Mostly. The thing about Star Wars was a joke though. I thought the winky smiley was enough to convey my message.

I never said it'd be better the Jedi wouldn't exist. Just that they were not just a bit flawed but majorly so.

I just don't know about the information because the Prequel era isn't what I'm interested in. I'm more post-Endor and Kotor era interested.

And treating slaves well is better than treating them badly. But it's still supporting slavery. You can relativise it all you want it remains a slave army.

Why not? Palpatine's plan was to paint Naboo and himself as a victim to gain sympathy to win the vote. The Trade Federation succeeding or not has no influence on his plans. In fact he sent his apprentice to stop the Queen from reaching Coruscant. [/derail]

---

To bring this back to Episode VII: My theory is that Captain Phasma will be Finns Evil Counterpart and main adversary. Both being Stormies and all.

edited 5th May '15 5:14:28 PM by Antiteilchen

Finn seems to be a simple grunt. Commander Phasma seems higher on the pecking order.

If Plagueis is still canon, then no, Palpatine knew about Anakin from the start because he indirectly CREATED him. He just didn't know how serious an issue/potential he was until the Jedi started training him. At some point, the two would have crossed paths regardless, and Anakin probably would have fallen to the Dark Side sooner. Why? Because unless he went with his mom when she was kidnapped, he would have felt guiltier for having been THAT CLOSE and still failing to save her.

And if he was with her, he still would have failed to save her immediately because an untrained grunt without heavy weaponry or a light saber isn't going to be able to just kill a pack of sand people.

So last night I had a very elaborate dream about what the First Order would be like. In my dream they were a Well-Intentioned Extremist organization who, while not as bad as the Empire, still thought the New Republic was too soft to realistically govern. They were led by a council rather than one Emperor, the ultimate leader of which was a surprisingly polite Lovecraftian-looking alien voiced by Von Sydow.

Weird.

Palpatine would know he and Plagueis willed someone into being, but I doubt he'd ever find some random slave kid that didn't know how to use the Force.

It's not like Anakin is as special as Ezra and can just instinctively use the Force (his sharpened pod-racer senses apparently didn't draw anyone's attention).

edited 5th May '15 7:27:44 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

I dunno why you hate Ezra so much, but indirectly use the Force without realizing it is pretty standard behavior for Force sensitives who haven't been exposed to the Jedi, especially when they start coming into their powers/subconciously realize they have the Force.

I mean, just take a look at what happened to Morgan Katarn or what Revan does on Taris during the first act of KOTOR. Using the Force without realizing it doesn't make Ezra stronger or more special than Vader, since you know, Vader is about to kill him in the Season 2 trailer of Rebels, so you can celebrate to your heart's content about that if you want.

edited 5th May '15 7:43:10 PM by higherbrainpattern

I was going to ask about that. I thought most untrained Force Sensitives are prone to unwittingly unleashing some of their power if they get put in stressful situations.

Not okay with those either. If Anakin and Luke, who are the two most powerful force-sensitives in the history of the galaxy (and Anakin being a personification of the force itself) can't instinctively use telekinesis, no force user should be able to.

edited 5th May '15 7:47:42 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

They are.

edited 5th May '15 7:48:24 PM by higherbrainpattern

Luke couldn't move things around until Yoda training. Anakin couldn't until Obi-Wan training. Using the force with just raw emotion is fine if you're gonna have that force sensitive be a dark jedi or something, since the dark side's power comes from passion and all that. The whole idea of the force in general is you need to be trained and reach a sort of zen to be able to use it. I don't like that people have been shown raging their way into using the non-dark side of the force.

Edit: Oops, thought you were talking to me.

edited 5th May '15 7:50:53 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."

According to a recent interview with Ezra's vocie actor, Taylor Gray, Ezra actually is at risk for falling to the Dark Side because his emotions run hot in stressful situations and the show is gonna address that.

I know it's no longer canon but I remember a novel from Obi-Wan's point of view where he's watching young Luke and he realizes that Luke is unknowingly using the force to slow down a rolling ball he's chasing after. I imagine both Luke and Anakin had several moments similar to this while growing up but non-Force users just brushed them off as the two of them getting lucky.

edit: Wait, doesn't Luke use telekinesis in the ending of A New Hope?

edited 5th May '15 8:03:45 PM by Kostya

He fires the torpedo at the exact right time. Nothing says he used the Force to guide the torpedo in. But nothing says he didn't either.

Don't they curve slightly? I thought Luke did that.

edited 5th May '15 8:19:24 PM by Kostya