Dota 2

We Call of Duty now

From that link about Doom last page, that's not how percentage works. 20% + 12% isn't 32%. It's, according to my math, almost 30% slow, because it stacks multiplicatively.

Do you people have any tips regarding ganking? I think I can play Faceless Void, Legion Commander and Axe reasonably, but I can't gank for shit. I mean, most of the time I don't even try to gank, usually because there's already another ganker on the team.

Also, any tips for choosing heroes in AP? I got so used to randoming in co-op bot matches for training, now I have no idea what to do. It doesn't help most people wait and wait only to counterpick. So far, what I have: 1) Pick Warlock, because an Ao E stun can always help (learned this the hard way); 2) Just random a hero, specially if no one else picked anything; 3) Pick Leshrac, because I heard it's easy to build a team around him.

edited 21st Apr '15 7:59:39 AM by Victin

Movement speed boosts are additive, not multiplicative, so I'd assume slows function the same way as well. EDIT: The official formula is:

movement speed = (base movement speed + flat movement speed bonuses) × (1 + sum of percentage movement speed bonuses (or slow))

Outside of the points you mentioned, pick support heroes that don't require too much skill and aren't farm heavy, like Lich, Ogre, Dazzle, Abaddon, etc. It's hard to go wrong with these guys once you get a little experience with them.

edited 21st Apr '15 8:30:29 AM by Elfhunter

It's well-known that Rubick should not be used against a line-up full of Heroes with abilities that synergize with each other, instead of big, expensive spells. I assume the same thing applies to AP. However, that was less a statement and more a question as to whether it's true. I never played AP as my patience would run out before it could load. 4 minutes is my limit.

EDIT: Never mind, I'm a complete moron. Move along now.

edited 21st Apr '15 9:01:44 AM by MightyMatilda

Well, that depends on what you mean by "gank." Ganking during the laning stage is not the same as ganking during the mid/late game.

In the laning stage:

• Ganking in this stage usually means rotating out of a lane or the jungle to another lane to kill.
• Identify an attack target. Is someone out of position? Is there a priority target that needs to be shut down?
• Identify your window of opportunity. Remember that time ganking is time spent not farming, doubly so if you're a core.
• Identify your angle of attack. From my experience, the best positions to gank are either when the target has pushed the lane out, or is under their tower.
  • When the lane is pushed out, you can try to go for a flank from the side or behind.
  • When the lane is under the enemy tower, with some timing so that the creeps tank the tower shots, you can go for a dive. (This is harder to do when ganking mid.)
  • When the lane is midway, you'll find that you don't have enough time to secure a kill unless you have a really good kill-lane, but you'll tank too many tower shots if you dive.
• Alert the lane you intend to gank before you even leave. This will give them time to push or pull the lane.
• Execute.

Ganking past the laning stage:

• This usually refers to roaming around the map, trying to secure pick-offs on lone enemy heroes.
• Identify a target. This is less important than in the laning stage, but know who you can/cannot gank.
• Identify a location. Time spent wandering is time not farming. Wards are invaluable, both for knowing where and where not the enemy is.
• Don't get caught. Smoke, invis, roundabout pathing, dewarding. Get spotted en route to your gank, you've wasted time, or worse, walked into a trap.
• If you plan on smoking, smoke deep enough in your own territory that you won't be caught out by a ward.
• Don't get counter-ganked.
• Unless you're balling out of control, it pays to bring a buddy more often than not.
• Execute.

I stand corrected then. I assumed it stacked multiplicatively.

Also, of the heroes you mentioned, I don't particularly know how to play with any of them XD Usually when I support I go for Warlock, CM, Shadow Demon, Skywrath Mage, and I recently discovered Venomancer.

Hmmm... Reading that I realize I don't actually know when to gank from my point of view. With FV, LC and Viper I'm usually fighting for the control of the middle lane, harassing and even trying to kill the enemy hero (I noticed I can play very aggresively sometimes, and some of these aggressive plays are my best). I tell myself "I should wait until I have my ultimate before trying to gank", but after that point I still don't leave the lane unless I think there's an upcoming teamfight, or another lane needs help, so that they don't advance through the middle lane.

Regarding those aggressive plays, two of those I can remember off the top of my head I was playing Undying. One of them was Und + Necrophos bot as Dire, the other Und + Axe top as Radiant. Undying's really good in the early game.

I don't mean to start a discussion or anything of the like, so I'll just put this link of a video that discusses two famous MOBAs here. For those who do not know the show, the side each host is arguing for is decided randomly, to keep things neutral/fair. I'm interested in hearing more opinions about this because I like Dota, but I know 1 other person who plays it IRL. Meanwhile, I know a lot of people who play Lo L, but the fact I have to pay to play with the heroes I want throws me down. Regarding the video itself, I see that while Matt Pat argues that Lo L is more casual, forcing the player out of their safety zone doesn't seem very casual for me. It also makes me wonder how Dota would play like in 5vs5 4 lanes with little jungling space, 5vs5 in 2 lanes with a huge jungle, and 3vs3 in 2 lanes with a jungle of average size.

I greatly prefer DOTA 2, mostly due to the greater fluidity in the metagame and character roles, and partly because of more interesting items. Though I have recently gotten back into League of Legends after getting tired of seeing Sniper and Troll so damn often. But, I REALLY, REALLY despise the obnoxious hate-obsession that so many DOTA players seem to have of LoL. It's like they want to feel special over having chosen a so-called "hardcore" game, so they are offended by the mere existence of "casual" games.

edited 21st Apr '15 11:50:49 AM by MightyMatilda

Hey, I play Dota casually.

League tends to be safer to play, actually. At least, when I used to do it, a lot of characters with similar roles had very skill sets. Their designers have this thing where 95% of their characters are given a high mobility skill of some sort, so being out-of-position isn't anywhere near as punishing as it is in DOTA. Add to it that everyone gets a free Blink Dagger with a long cooldown, plus that fact that there's no seriously long stuns and it's a lot easier for people to avoid dying, even if a gank is well-executed (which is where part of its more casual reputation comes from). The pay/grindwall is really annoying, but because of the homogenized nature of the characters, it's not that big a deal, at least at lower-level play. The few exceptions are typically the newest 3-5 additions, which typically come in really overpowered at the highest purchase costs and stay there for a while, making for a bit of a pay-to-win button in pubs.

And purely persona experience here (whereas the above is observation that aligned with those who were more experienced than me), when I used to play League, I found I could make a lot of dumb mistakes and still come away from a match with something like 0/0/15 as a support, whereas I doubt I'll ever manage anything like that in DOTA 2. I also once escaped a 5-man gank coming from three directions in one of those matches, yet another thing I doubt I'd ever be able to do here.

While I greatly disagree with the idea that League Champions are too similar, it's still obvious that Mobility Creep got out of hand long ago, even if Riot is gradually taking methods to reduce it. It says something that, while Flash has a range of only 300 or so, I never take it since it makes things too easy.

I have a theory about how DOTA and LoL release characters. The developers don't want to release underpowered characters and then buff them, because professional players will likely ignore the character even when it's strong. They think it's better to release an OP character and nerf it, so players will still know its strengths. This the only theory I could think of that explains things all that well.

I haven't played League, but with what I've heard, DOTA is more unforgiving, which might scare new and casual players away.

Yeah, Icefrog generally avoids nerfing a hero into the ground most of the time if they're OP. For the most part he does gradual nerfs. Unless said hero is a huge problem or the players really cry out for it (TI2 Morphling) at which point he breaks out the sledgehammer. Or if the hero in question is Batrider.

edited 21st Apr '15 1:21:02 PM by Marioguy128

People on Reddit were actually surprised when Omniknight - a Hero with a 62% pub winrate at the time - got the HP regen on his Ult taken away from him. It's not like Icefrog never takes note of complaints in pubs.

I'm afraid of the constant minor buffs that Lina has always gotten. Pros might start using her and discover that she got broken without anyone noticing. Probably.

She's already pretty broken, and people have taken notice. Although I think nerfing Eul's will be enough since that's one of the main reasons she's too strong right now.

On League Champions and Difference: I would posit to you that, while League champions are not indistinct, they are not unique on the same level that Dota 2 heroes are.

On Flavor of the Month: Historically, the "new hotness" in Dota 2 tends to be whatever has been getting small buffs over patches. One recent example is Juggernaut, although that +6 starting AGI buff was a pretty big buff. Sniper, with those HO HO HA HA changes is another.

edited 21st Apr '15 1:48:20 PM by MetaSkipper

I also play both casually. In fact, I like most MOBA's, with the big 4 being Dota, LOL, Smite and HOTS. But seriously, we ought to promote the peace between the two fandoms. It's POSSIBLE. We just need more promos and be louder than those who likes one game and hate another. Shame those who indulge on those hate-obsession and the 'special feel' to be 'hardcore' and ridiculing those who likes the others, praise those who promote peace between the two fandoms!

... Gee, I sound like a mad speech guy. I ought to get back to doing DOTA more casually... Even when the only heroes I am proficient with are mostly Sven and CM (Tried Jugg, failed to understand how to deal damage in teamfights beyond Omnislashing because he then gets focused to death.)

edited 21st Apr '15 4:02:39 PM by ChrisX

I should tell myself that there's nothing wrong with preferring to use a simple Hero. Even if you win and people on the other team say, "You only won because [blank] is easy!" They still say this even if they picked WK or Dragon Knight.

Well, if it works, it works. You picked smart and they're just jealous.

Well, the topic seems to have drifted into a different direction, but I just have to address something.

Oh, Lich is real easy, you should try him out. He only needs Tranquil boots early, since he can sacrifice creeps for mana, so you can buy wards and still save up money for utility items; you can annoy the enemy carry constantly by spamming Frost Blast and Sacrifice (he also finds good levels because Sacrifice gives exp too); Frost Armor makes everything harder to kill; and his Frost Nova could, under the right circumstances, even net you a rampage.

The heroes you mentioned are fine as well, although Veno really sucks if you don't get any farm (have played a few position 5 Venos myself and those games didn't end well).

Unless you picked HO HO HA HA. Then you deserve it.

No, no, no. This is how you play Lich.

But yeah, Lich is my go-to simple support. Witch Doctor's pretty straight forward too. I hear Venge is easy, but never tried her.

While I tend more toward Earthshaker and Disruptor, I also quite enjoy Lich. He may be simple, but his versatility really sells him to me. It might also help that the first time I picked him up in non-bot match, Pannic and I were messing around with Lich and Enigma as a combo. We didn't execute as well as we could have, but the results were hilarious when it worked. >.>

I've only played Venge once, but I'm inclined to agree that she fits into simple and versatile, if only for the fact that when I played her, it was because someone wanted to do a 'Spirits' theme team and I basically got dropped into playing her spur-of-the-moment. I suppose it probably helped that I'd played enough bot matches to know how all of her abilities work, but it's still quite another thing to go from observing to playing. The swap ult was especially funny because the opposing team didn't take it into account at all when engaging or disengaging, leaving me free to troll them as I pleased.

I just tried out Lich in a co-op bot match. I got 22 kills and 26 assists XD More than anyone else on my team.

Daaaaayum, that Lich build is legit, yo.

I had a pretty funny Lich clip for Fails of the Week, but it didn't get picked .

I didn't suggest ES and Disruptor since they're slightly more skill based and need a bit of farm, but if you can play them well then they're really good.

See? There you go

Of course, the AI doesn't give two shits about Chain Frost, opting to continue fighting while it bounces between them. Your stats probably won't be that ridiculous vs human players.

EDIT: Oops, wrote Frost Nova by accident

edited 23rd Apr '15 5:49:14 AM by Elfhunter

I think you are talking about chain frost, not frost nova. Frost nova is his q, chain frost is his ultimate.

Yeah, my bad.

Man I really can't wait for the Sniperpocalypse to end, just so I don't have to see yet another damn Sniper. I honestly never thought I'd ever see the day where Sniper becomes the most broken hero in the game.

HOO HOO HAA HAA