My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic SPOILER TALK THREAD

I feel like this fandom has problems distinguishing between the show itself and the meta surrounding it.

Starlight Glimmer was in a few episodes with some questionable writing choices, so, obviously, she's inherently terrible and ought to be removed from the show. Flash Sentry was relegated to an unnecessary romance subplot, so he's an awful person and only good for mockery now. I really strongly identify with Rainbow Dash, so anytime there's an episode where she does something stupid and learns a lesson, I need to write a Fix Fic about how she was right from the start and everyone who criticizes her is evil.

And so on.

The problem with Starlight is not JUST her shoddily done redemption. It is also that she tends to be a Spotlight-Stealing Squad in her episodes, where other characters are suddenly less competent so she can save the day (very blatant in the Equestria Girls shorts). It makes it look like the show is bending over backwards to MAKE the audience like her and root for her, which creates resentment towards the character. Then there is the feeling among some fans that she undeservedly got a spot as Twilight's protege, when they feel that Sunset Shimmer was much more deserving of (and built up as) becoming Twilights personal student and the Seventh Mare on the team. I think it would help greatly if the writers just let her be part of the team, and stop trying to force the audience to like her, which the writers have been a little better about lately.

As for Flash Sentry, it was probably because he was yet another cliche in what was felt to already be a very cliche highschool setting. Add that to the cliche of the Sudden Movie Boyfriend (which ought to be a trope...), and its easy to see why people didn't like him initially. His rather bland depiction in the actual movie didn't exactly help matters, either. I think most of the mockery stems not so much from the character himself, but of what he represents: being cast as a bog-standard Satellite Love Interest, and nothing else. Also, since Pony!Twilight didn't return to Canterlot High after the second movie, there really wasn't much else to do with the character.

If you are referring to that episode where Rainbow Dash scares Fluttershy in the Everfree Forest, yeah, that was a pretty bad break of character for her, when she had already been established way back in season one as being above pranking Fluttershy because it was too mean.

They have been making her more part of the team as of late. And the problems with the EQG short weren't even Starlight, but with the shitty fucking antagonist they decided to throw in. The whole thing was an exercise in bad writing, singling Starlight out misses the fact that Juniper Montage is the single worst thing to have ever been done with the franchise and the biggest flaws with Mirror Magic were literally everything to do with her.

And in all honesty, that people felt Sunset made more sense to be Twilight's pupil and not Starlight just feels like fan wank and jealousy.

I dunno, it sure felt like they were building up to Sunset becoming Twilight's pupil, what with her diary and all.

Yes, the short had a lot of problems, but I was talking specifically about what happened once Starlight showed up, and basically everyone else was incapacitated so she could singlehandedly save the day. Its the feeling that everyone suffers The Worf Effect once she shows up.

Thats not to say I don't like her. I think she has good potential once they let go of her repentance angle (which they thankfully have for the most part) and stop treating her like she is supposed to be the sole protagonist. I also like how her character allows for more storylines with other secondary characters.

Come to think of it, maybe that's also why they brought the Pillars of Equestria to the present day. It allows these new storylines with new and secondary characters, without the huge baggage of being a reformed villain. I expect less Starlight and a lot more of the Pillars next season. I mean, there's SEVEN of them.

Hmm, if every pillar corresponds to one of the mane six, then Stygias must be... Spike! That... works surprisingly well.

Stygian and Spike makes a lot of sense, really.

As for my earlier comment about Rainbow Dash, I was thinking specifically about "Pranks a Lot". Not only does that fic try to argue that Rainbow Dash Did Nothing Wrong in "28 Pranks Later", but actually has her act worse than she did in the episode, insisting she's completely blameless all the while. And it has 437 upvotes.

Those upvotes must be from those fan fillies that obsessively follow Rainbow Dash around since the journal got published.

Either that or they just liked the story regardless of those issues.

But yeah, in any fandom there's always a sizeable chunk who end up critiquing things not because there are legitimate issues, but because new information doesn't line up with their own headcanon. Now, granted on occasion those complaints can have merit (i.e. there are definitely cases where it could be argued that somebody in the fanbase executed an idea in a more interesting way than the show itself did, but even then it must be remembered that a fan isn't under the same constraints as somebody who has to follow what the execs say), but for the most part they often boil down to "I would've liked it better if this other thing had happened, therefore it's bad".

That said, I do think there are valid criticisms to make of Starlight's whole arc. Specifically that A. her redemption was super rushed B. it flip-flops a lot over exactly how much progress she's made, and C. she is taking away screentime from other characters. Like, the concept behind the character is solid, but the execution has been rather hit or miss. Individual Starlight episodes can work fine, but taken together her development has been a bit schizophrenic. It doesn't help that she hasn't really been incorporated into the primary cast very well, since she rarely interacts with any of them other than Twilight. There needs to be an episode of her just hanging out with other ponies and showing her being "normal."

There was. The episode where she befriends Maud and is mostly focused on Maud with Starlight being mostly in a couple of scenes. Now if you mean she needs more, I agree, but there's a fine line between saying "This character's focus is a bit wonky" and "STARLIGHT'S A MARY SUE".

That episode is one of my favorite Starlight episodes for exactly that reason: it shows her building some natural relationships with other ponies. I just wish she'd get more like that and less ones that focus on her in her capacity as Twilight's student.

And yeah, she's definitely not a Mary Sue by any stretch. I just think that the latest season has been a bit too light on episodes driven primarily by interaction between the mane cast members. "Honest Apple" is probably the closest we've had to that, and that was back at the start of the season.

edited 13th Oct '17 11:39:01 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Eh, mostly now she seems to be a substitute for Spike when they need her to be in an episode but not as a focus. Part of it is that Season 7 has had a massive decrease in any episodes pairing multiple ponies up, so for whatever reason they seem to be hesitant to make her paired up with other characters.

I know, and that's exactly what I wish they'd change. The interactions between the main characters are my favorite part of the show, and I wish we'd have more of that. I mean, there are still plenty of good episodes this season, but I want to see the cast hanging out with each other again.

You're not the only one. This is why I haven't been as enthused with this season, the character interactions aren't there like they used to be and its annoying.

Actually, "Rock Solid Friendship" was the episode that made me think maybe there was some merit to the accusations of Starlight being a Black Hole Sue. The idea that Starlight was the best candidate for Maud to befriend—that Starlight gets Maud better than her own sister does—doesn't quite sit right with me.

edited 13th Oct '17 11:44:32 PM by MetaFour

Eh, I can buy it. Pinkie's kind of not that receptive or understanding towards some people.

I took it as "different", instead of "better".

Starlight's is probably Maud's first friend outside her family and that's gotta count for something. And Starlight's probably like, "Eh, she didn't start a cult or almost end the world, so she can't be that bad, no matter what." And just plowed on through to be Maud's friend.

Yeah, I don't think it's that Starlight gets Maud better, so much as the relationship is just in a different context. Pinkie and Maud are sisters. They grew up together. The relationship between them is something built up over the course of years. Maud's relationship with Starlight is different because it's a pure friendship without any pre-existing familial relationships to affect it.

Also, it's totally within Pinkie's character to assume that everyone makes friends the same way she does, and freak out when it doesn't go that way. It's not so much that Starlight "gets" Maud better than Pinkie as Pinkie just having an unusual idea of how friendships are supposed to go and freaking out when it isn't going that way.

edited 14th Oct '17 8:18:38 AM by JapaneseTeeth

This is the same person who harassed someone into being her friend.

Another analyst pointed this out to me: Since all six of the Pillars poured their magic into the Seed, that makes it our first explicit confirmation that earth ponies have magic.

(Tirek really really strongly implied this, since he could drain earth ponies just like unicorns and pegasi. But there was still enough wiggle room for people to interpret it differently.)

I think Tirek was already pretty much explicit confirmation, and earlier episodes strongly suggested it.

Just finished Shadow Play Part 1.

Observation: Celestia and Luna suggest that they were both quite young when Star Swirl disappeared, which contradicts the comics (which aren't in the same canon I know, but still) that show Celestia was seen interacting with Star Swirl as an adult.

Observation 2: Star Swirlspeaks perfect modern Equestrian when his journals would seem to indicate that he spoke Olde Ponish.

edited 22nd Oct '17 5:17:45 PM by Eagal

The show writers and comic writers have tried to tie the two together better this season, but it hasn't worked well. It's like they shared basic plot outlines with each other, then didn't communicate any more as both sides fleshed out their stories, leading to all these inconsistencies.

As for the odd use of Old Ponish and Modern Ponish, I'll just repost my personal theory:

Yeah, Olde Ponish was probably already on the way out back then, and persisted because learned scholars wrote their texts with it.

I like that Celestia is rusty in reading it. Wonder if Luna might have better grasp, seing she is time displaced about a thousand years (man, they really need to start expanding their "long ago" vocabulary).

More props to Fluttershy for having enough grasp on it to connect the dots of Meadowbrook's past.

Also, about the comics, only with issue 51 they have started to tie the two continuities. Its not even been a year since the endeavour started. Perhaps it can improve.

DHX is just set not to even consider secondary material though. Not even the books are given more than a passing glance, and they got the writers of several on the staff these days.

We will be hearing some Old Ponish next episode, so I'm curious if we can make sense of it, since it is likely an analogue of either Old English or Latin.

If we are going with Equestria being somewhat analogous to the real world, and Old Ponish is the Latin equivalent, it would certainly not be on the way out.

Interestingly, a thousand years would place these events around our Norman Conquest of England, which introduced Old French into Old English, so it could possibly also be an analogue to Old French, which would make it the new language of the ruling class of Equestria.

"Hirc silose Ponehenge" (The temple of Ponehenge). "Tawar do grimlek ab Fola Firgingork" (at the base of Foal Mountain). "Usur engemest sheolt" (Our last stand).

That's what I can make out (by the way, guess who reads illegible scribbles in ancient languages at first glance?)

Interestingly, Fola means "blood" in Irish.

If anyone can improve on my transcription, feel free, its kinda hard when you don't know the language.

At first glance it sounds sort of like Latin mixed with some other Germanic language (I'm pretty sure sheolt is not Latin). It could be medieval Latin, which deviated quite a bit from classical Latin.

We do have some Futhark runes as well, spelling out "Poni Rules".

I also found this and this. Not sure how official that is, though.

edited 23rd Oct '17 9:35:18 AM by Redmess

Yo, Tirek confirmed for Season 8.