Why are Illuminati believers all over the place?----Holes in the logic

Groom Lake is where planes that are too classified for Edwards get initial flight testing.

I personally don't think humanity is competent enough to come up with something as well organised as an Illuminati NWO.

Think about it, in an age of Wikileaks, it's too hard to get a conspiracy off the ground. Wikileaks took the curtain away and showed humanity the lame truth that it wasn't even alien lizard Satanists pulling the strings, just old men who Super Mario would outsmart in plugging the leaks in those pipes they're so out of touch.

The truth is out there, and the truth is incredibly lame. And because the truth is lame, without a hint of Satanist lizard aliens, people stop being scared of the threats that the ruling class provide and they start getting the mobs of torches and pitchforks ready.

And that's why an Illuminati would be terrified of the internet. The internet is scarier than they are because it shows everybody what they were scared of was brutally lame and uninspiring.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears

^

In other words, it wasn't a Conspiracy to cover something bad*

, more to cover up somebody doing something really stupid.

Keep Rolling On

Greed is the motivation for doing the things that the ruling class do, and embarassment is the reason they keep most of it behind closed doors.

There is a saying that says, essentially, that conspiracy theories arise when one abandons the idea of God and then asks "Who else is screwing me over?" Personally, I think they tend to be just another example of humanity trying to impose order in an essentially random universe. They're particularly insidious because it's impossible to prove a negative occurrence; you can't prove definitively that aliens DIDN'T crash at Area 51, you can only provide more likely alternative explanations (and probability only proves what most likely happened, not what did happen).

What I've always found most irritating about conspiracy theorists is that they can never be wrong; you can offer then all manner of proof that their pet theory is incorrect, up to and including someone copping to having perpetrated the hoax in the first place, and they'll insist that you're wrong, mistaken, misled, or lying. Or part of the conspiracy.

You're wrong, mistaken, misled, or lying. Or part of the conspiracy. Your post is enough proof.

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

Well, I suppose all those claimed to be part of the conspiracy could be flattered by the thought that they're that competent to keep such crazy schemes going with so many years and people involved. The ultimate ego stroke, if you will.

In other news, Jesse Ventura's conspiracy show makes me feel like my brain cells are dying. More so than that Ancient Aliens show, and that's saying something.

I believe that a reason that these conspiracies exist is because of an attempt to place the world into Black-and-White Morality or to create an "Alternate Reality" where the world is one. Perhaps it's how we are taught history, perhaps its our religions, but one thing is for sure, the imagined existence of the Illuminati is actually based on Black-and-White Morality.

I'v read, too, that it's actually a survival mechanism of the human mind to perceive patterns and presume cause-and-effect, even where none necessarily exists. If you assume that disruption in the tall grass always means there's a tiger lurking about, you're much more likely to survive over someone who admits that, more often than not, it's probably just the wind or something so it's nothing to worry about.

Hypothetically, if there were some sort of global world-spanning conspiracy headed by a shadowy elite, what would it look like? Or is the "Illuminati" supposed to be an umbrella term for many different conspiratorial groups that compete against one another for world domination?

And if it's the second one, how is that substantially any different from actual reality? Churches, nations, political parties, corporations, nonprofits, non-governmental organizations and so on already compete with one another and work to further their own agendas, for good or ill. Is there supposed to be somebody behind them all, pulling the strings of all these groups simultaneously? How do they think it's supposed to work?

edited 19th Nov '12 9:28:58 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

That's the point I've been trying to make. It's a lot more simple, and a lot more obvious than what people make it out to be.

If anything, I'd say the Illuminati is more of an idea than an actual thing. When the rich and powerful scheme together against the masses, they fulfill that idea.

It's simple and obvious to people who know what they're talking about and have actually done the research. Consider Eisenhower's "Military-Industrial Complex", which is an awesomely intimidating name. Conspiracy theorists will latch onto that phrase and spin a whole web of weirdo theories, usually involving lizard people and CIA space lasers. Rational people will understand the very real relationship between corporate defense contractors, members of Congress that sit on the appropriations committees, and the military brass who ask Congress for money to buy the latest toys.

Or the so-called "Iron Triangle" of close relationships between corporate lobbyists, the administrative agencies in charge of implementing policy, and the Congressional subcommittees that oversee the agencies.

Of course, Conspiracy Nuts are not necessarily the sort of people who do their research, or who have actually spent time working in the halls of power and have seen these sort of things first hand.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

I'm just going to leave this here.

It's okay to dislike Nicki Minaj, really. It doesn't mean that she's being controlled by the Illumanati.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I don't think this video's maker knows the meaning of "context."

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

If I were in the Illuminati, why would I want to control Nicki Minaj, of all people?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Beats me. Then again, I've seen similar claims about Bieber.

edited 29th Nov '12 1:49:39 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Um. They're not, and it is not? At least I don't know anybody to be an Illuminati beliver, and if it were cool it's not something they'd stay quiet about. Is it a regional thing?

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.

"This person is popular? We need to get them in our evil club, man!"

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

It would seem to me that a secretive world-dominating conspiracy wouldn't want famous and popular people as members, but would prefer to have them as puppets. Isn't that how those kooks think it operates? Like there's a secretive cabal that controls both major political parties, and manipulates who gets elected. Or they put subliminal messages into recordings by popular artists to control our minds and make us buy crap at the mall.

Recording companies have been manufacturing pop stars for years, the same way that movie studios would manufacture movie stars. The only "goal" is to use the celebrity personality to make money until the next hot thing comes along. Do corporations have any motivations more sinister than "make piles of cash"?

edited 30th Nov '12 6:27:58 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Scrub the "both" — I think the Conspiracy Theorists mean major Political Parties everywhere, inside and outside the USA.

edited 30th Nov '12 6:33:01 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

One would think that if these conspirators had as much power as the Conspiracy Theorists thought, that they would already have completed their goal, whatever it might be, whether imposing an overt world government, world church,or turn us all into lizard-alien hybrids.

Although I have mixed feelings about having my DNA spliced with that of space lizards. On the one hand, limb regeneration would be really useful. But on the other hand, I prefer to be warm-blooded.

edited 30th Nov '12 6:48:06 AM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

^

...and if they (the Illuminati/NWO) do exist, they're nowhere near as Omniscient as they're made out to be. The way things have turned out, they're probably a Not-So-Omniscient Council of Bickering that are definately not in control of the situation!

Keep Rolling On

See, I've always figured that if these shadowy overlords do exist, all of these conspiracy theorists are playing exactly into their hands. They want people to have these theories, for crazies to think they exist while levelheaded people don't. They'd have plausible deniability that way.

I've also figured that if they really do control the world from so afar that no one but them even knows, then that really doesn't matter, as the world is still doing what it's doing relatively unscathed (horrid global conflicts that have nothing to do with them aside). I mean, maybe it'd be nice if they had a P.O. Box for us to address our grievances for them to try to fix, but aside from that, ob-la-di, ob-la-da.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

I wonder how people are supposed to join the conspiracy. Is there an application form you can fill out? One theory I remember reading is that they actually operate as a sort of hereditary aristocracy. I guess if you trace just about anybody's ancestry back far enough you find you're related to Queen Victoria or Charlemagne or something.

And how exactly are these organizations controlled? Does the President of the local Rotary Club get an email every month from the Council of Darkness telling him what to do?

That's the thing about these sort of theories; examine them in even a slightly critical way and they fall apart.

Although, and this may be a topic for a different forum, would it be possible to contruct a plausible Illuminati-type conspiracy in a work of fiction? As a sort of Deconstruction meets Behind the Scenes story. That might be pretty interesting; I'll have to think about that.

edited 5th Dec '12 1:43:33 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

That depends. What do you think would have to be changed to make it plausible?