Black Hawk Down

Talk about Black Hawk Down.

It was a rather sobering experience for me. I've never seen any war movie, or movie in general, that was so gritty, especially when it came to wounds.

The fact that it was mostly real (apparently the movie severely downplayed the actions of Malaysian and Pakistan forces), it makes things worse for me.

Still, it had a really cool action. I especially liked the scene where Delta operators pulling ninja and taking down both missile and gatling gun turrets. Two Delta snipers pulling two man army was cool as well.

edited 3rd Sep '12 3:27:17 PM by dRoy

I'm reminded of Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Jarhead whenever somebody mentions it. I also recall a bunch of my classmates (highschool classmates, keep in mind) mention how stupid it was that they decided to literally drive into the center of a hostile city and fly so low despite all the hostiles on the ground. Typically I've found that most folks don't get the idea behind real life tactics and think the Hollywood stuff is real instead, but this was one case where they were completely right about the whole thing. Just shows how much common sense was lacking during that operation.

Hey, no one thought they could crash the Black Hawks until it was done. No one thought something like 9/11 could happen until it did, etc. I remember in the book it said something about how they all made fun of the medic that made them carry a crapload of extra medical supplies around on the helicopters, but of course when this happened it saved tons of lives. More thinking in that mindset would've saved a ton of lives, yeah. Not bringing night-vision goggles, extra water, stuff like that, was a pretty foolish mistake, but I can't really blame them for not expecting four of their helicopters to get shot down.

EDIT: I realized that came off as me chewing you out/bitching. Sorry if it did, that wasn't my intention.

Gordon and Shughart, the two snipers, are two of my all-time favorite heroes. As far as soldiers go, they're with Simo Hayha and Wojtek the Bear in terms of how incredible they were. I can think of very few people that would have that kind of bravery, to go in and do something like that.

edited 8th Sep '12 9:45:32 PM by DeviumFilius

I love that film. Sure, there are inaccuracies, but there always are in these things.

I'm on a bit of modern war film kick just now, actually. Ordered Restrepo the other day.

I think there should be more British war films, though.

Agreed. Don't know about you, Jonesy, but I think the last decent British war movie was "Tumbledown", based on Robert Alisdair Davidson Lawrence M.C.'s experience in the eponymous battle during the Falklands War. Controversial as fuck but still a great film.

Oh, wow, yeah.

Thank god they treat wounded squaddies so much better than that these days, eh?

Ahem.

edited 13th Sep '12 1:45:08 AM by InverurieJones

Modern warfare films are very short on the ground. So Black Hawk Down fills a niche.

One of Ridley's last great films, the claustrophobia, the chaos and just how exhausting warfare is.

On a minor note. In odd case of Pop-Cultural Osmosis, an interview I saw with Bill Clinton. He never refers to the event as the intervention in Somalia or the battle for Mogadishu just 'Black Hawk Down'.

There is a distinct lack of Modern British war films. Surely the first Gulf is worth a go? I know the TV film version of Bravo Two Zero. I also continually surprised no one ever did a film of the Battle of El Alamein.

edited 13th Sep '12 11:51:33 AM by korpse_man

One of my favourite war films. Actually, one of my favourite films in general. I haven't seen it in years, though.

Devium - Agreed. It was clear that they knew what they were getting into. That is the true display of bravery, in my opinion.

British war films, huh? Like which ones?

British war films tend to be of the World War Two variety. I'm pretty sure there's at least one relatively well-known British Korean War film, but I can't think what.

edited 14th Sep '12 12:47:15 PM by pagad

Google-fu is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Hill_in_Korea -

which starred the two main leads of the immortal "Zulu", Michael Caine and Stanley Baker, years before Cy Enfield helmed them in that pic.

Added to the films to see list!

Now these are what you call ninjas!

This film was partially what awoke my dream to get into special operations one day. Maybe I'll even make it happen. I think this film actually had a detrimental effect on the public image of the 75th, as it doesn't really show them in the best light (I've seen Rangers complain online about how they're seen as little more than a security force for a certain counterterrorism unit). I'm not an expert on regimental history, but I sense that the 90's were not the best decade for the 75th.

Technically, they did snatch the targets and finish what they set out to do. The problems happened afterwards.

So many problems...

I expected Navy SEAL or Green Berets to show up in the movie. Back then those were the only American special operation forces I knew.

This is a pretty cool music.

I picked up the book the other day and was just having a read-through to see how different it was from the movie. I found some of the details they left out interesting; like how some of the Delta guys actually looked down on the Rangers.

There were actually SEALs in Mogadishu as well as pararescue and combat control technicians. I believe there were a few SAS guys as well but we'll probably never find out more than that.

Really? Interesting.

Random wondering: I don't think I saw any Somali militia using grenades. Hmm...I wonder where did they get all the weapons?

edited 30th Oct '12 9:08:53 AM by dRoy

Regarding the pararescuemen, some fun trivia, the medic traveling with the convoy in the film was an Air Force para in Real Life.

Also, Sergeant Strucker, the convoy leader who tells the Lieutenant Colonel "I don't wanna talk about it right now. I'm busy!" when asked about his status (while getting shot at), later got out of the Army, then came back in as a Chaplain.

How much does this movie date itself by the mere fact that Grimsey is considered a rare breed apart from the rest of the Rangers because he can type?

Really? Very interesting.

I never understood that; how was being able to type a special asset back then?

Evidently it was a skill that most infantrymen in 1993 lacked. Less saturation of personal computers I guess. In 2012, I still get comments from co-workers about how fast I can type.

I grew up in the 90s, and yes, the personal computer did much for typing as a skill learned in school. Oregon Trail, anyone? I was lucky that I was ahead of the curve in that regard. Many Schools didn't really start offering typing as a class until the mid-90s.

As for who supplied weapons in Somalia, it was pretty much weapons trafficking and smuggling. Throughout the 80s, the under-represented clans were basically getting weapons trafficked through Ethiopia in their resistance against Siad Barre's regime (which was being supplied with their weapons often from the US). When the Civil War started in 1986, it was just even more weapons being funneled into the country.