Pussy Riot and Russia.

The point is that their sentence had nothing to do with their actions in the Church and everything to do with the fact that they opposed Putin and his government so openly. The location and the situation just gave them an excuse to trump up charges for a political suppression show trial.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

I'm...well, shocked is too strong a word, but surprised, and more than a little disturbed at how many of you are willing to support incredibly authoritarian, and frankly, unfair actions like this. Look. A fine, perhaps, might be justifiable, but this is just locking up someone who disagrees with you, and then claiming "mercy" because in other places they would have been beheaded.

The only people who have been "harmed" in this are the three women about to be sent to a Russian penal colony for being too critical of Vladimir Putin and his friends in the Russian Orthodox Church.

edited 19th Aug '12 7:18:30 PM by TheBatPencil

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

It's also worth noting, Pussy Riot did nothing to decry the Church itself - merely the support the Patriarch had expressed for Vladimir Putin.

They weren't attacking religion, they were attacking religious support for authoritarianism.

"Lock up your girlfriends, lock up your wives, Grim's on the loose so run for your lives." - Pyrite

Reports I have seen all say they bluffed their way into the church, they didn't break in. Once inside they spent around a minute dancing and making a noise before being carried out by security.

@Loni Jay: I can say that nobody in their right mind would sentence 2 years in a russian prison for an anti-putin demonstration on church grounds.

But Putin isnt exactly known for being a sane or friendly man.

If I broke into a church here in missouri and started screaming "republicans are satan !" ZI'm pretty sure I would not get thrown into jail for multiple years after a show trial.

edited 19th Aug '12 7:59:32 PM by Midgetsnowman

I would definitely agree with that, yes. But you said that this was no different to putting pro-atheism messages on buses, which is clearly not so.

Be not afraid...

Can someone explain to me how that supporter cutting down a cross dedicated to the memory of an emotionally charged election that faced some rather brutal reprisals for peaceful demonstrators is somehow a good thing?

I'm not a religious guy, but I think cutting down a cross in any order is outright disrespectful.

Did the band break into the church, or not? That's the difference between a harsh sentence and dictatorial repression.

Also, cutting down a cross doesn't seem commendable to me.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

That sounds like property destruction actually. B&E with property destruction sounds like something that might get you some jail time in a normal court. Whether or not they did it is a question.

Fight smart, not fair.

As I understand it, the cutting down a cross thing wasn't done by Pussy Riot, but by supporters after they got arrested. In any event, they seemed to have only been charged with the church incident and not the cross cutting. The article didn't indicated whether or not they arrested the guys who did the latter.

So, B&E at the most, possibly with disturbing the peace (Russian equivalent). That doesn't seem worth 2 years in prison. Not unless they've got more background of doing things like it and this was a last straw scenario.

Fight smart, not fair.

A topples women's rights activist chopped down a Christian cross in the center of the Ukrainian capital Kiev with a power saw in support of Pussy Riot.

Pussy Riot was not directly responsible for this, and probably doesn't even know about it due to being incarcerated at the moment.

edited 19th Aug '12 10:20:04 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

As for breaking and entering...

"Four women from the group went to the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour of the Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow, masking their identities, crossing themselves, bowing to the altar and beginning to perform the song “Mother of God, Put Putin Away”. After less than a minute (41 seconds to be exact) they were escorted outside the building by guards."

Basically, the just walked in and started singing until they were kicked out.

Interestingly, The Russian Orthodox Church's initial response was mild. Though an outspoken cleric known for his liberal views calls it a "legal outrage" during Shrovetide week, when church tradition allows and even encourages carnival-like escapades and jokes...But the band then released the video with an actual song — with screeching guitars and an angry chorus urging Holy Mary to become a feminist. That's what really pissed them off.

The song also claims that the church's leader, Patriarch Kirill, venerates Putin instead of God

edited 19th Aug '12 10:39:07 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Then yes, the most they should have gotten hit for would be public disturbance (if you can call it that if it's on private property, assuming said church counts as private property).

Fight smart, not fair.

Wow, so it's only wrong if it's actually prevented? Harrassment in religious facilities is fine? So the Westboro Baptists are doing something completely acceptable, because they "don't prevent the funerals at gunpoint"? Desecrating religious places doesn't hinder someone at practicing their religion. I have to remember that, that's something I didn't know.

Seriously, I begin to get the feeling that only gets defended so much because it goes against Putin.

At least you believe that. Well, I actually believe almost the same. But I don't see it as relevant for my statement. I see it as a case of Kick The Son Of A Bitch.

edited 19th Aug '12 10:49:49 PM by Uchuujinsan

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

Heh, to say that the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church does NOT venerate that over promoted Chekisti more than the god he is paid to profess to obey is probably blasphemy.

[[edit]]
Removed, because I think I completely missed the context - sorry.

edited 19th Aug '12 10:56:51 PM by Uchuujinsan

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

There's a difference between holding a funeral for a veteran and disregarding separation of church and state.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

If you invite Westboro Baptists to a funeral and don't kick them out when they get rowdy, you have only yourself to blame.

Now, if Pussy Riot had entered the church without permission or refused to leave when church officials demanded they do so, then that'd be different. But as it stands, they went into a building where the general public is welcome, said some things that some people there found offensive, and were promptly escorted out. What's the problem with that?

Not only that, there's a difference between spreadiing hatred towards the gay minority and calling out on a religious organisation supporting a dictator.

Technically, they entered an area of the church (the ambo) without permissionen.

I'm a little bit disappointed - I would have hoped that I would have gotten a better argument than "one is a cause I support, while the other one is a cause I oppose".

Well, feel free to answer and I will promise to read that answer, but I don't think I will have anymore to say about that.

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

^Because one is a cause worth fighting for (Gay marriage), the other is a cause championed by that which makes other Christians look bad.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

The Westboro church comparison ultimately undermines your argument. Most people advocate throwing Westboro OUT of the ceremonies they disrupt and fining if appropriate (reasonable responses), and not imprisoning them for two years (unreasonable response).

edited 19th Aug '12 11:59:31 PM by ForlornDreamer

Come on, people. You can't go around saying that tactics are acceptable if you agree with the cause they were championing, but disrespectful and wrong when you don't. If something is wrong, it's wrong no matter who does it. You don't get to say "Well, I like these guys, so that makes it OK".

Be not afraid...