Snowclone: Indy Swap

Just launched, name is an unclear snowclone and a character reference. YKTTW debate about the name was inconclusive, and after it was made up for grabs, someone decided to go ahead and launch it with the current name. I figure it's worth discussing the matter here.

Link to the YKTTW here.

It is bad YKTTW practice to launch a trope when the name is still being debated.

Not really a snowclone.

For the record, it was actually launched by the YKTTW's original author. I should know; it was me.

Also for the record, this (from YKTTW comments):

...is off the mark. There is no such rule banning Trope Namers.

If a trope namer is ever appropriate, it's for tropes like this. I don't know if it's ever used without being a reference to Indian Jones.

It has a redirect, but without crosswicking I definitively fear it will suffer from underuse.

While the name isn't great, the description strikes me as considerably worse.

It may not be true that we "don't do that", but it is certainly true that character/show-named tropes are strongly discouraged. And snowclones even more so. Worse, as Shimaspawn pointed out in the YKTTW, "Indy" is a word that has a variety of meanings. Most of the famous Indiana Jones movies are decades old, and the only recent one was a bit of a bomb. I suspect that most people are going to think of independent movies or indie music when they see the name. More will think of Indianapolis or the "Indy 500".

Some of the older tropes using this pattern may fall under the grandfather clause (and others may need their own trip to TRS), but this one is just begging for misuse and underuse.

(Agree that the description needs work as well.)

I'll concur.

I know that for months now Trope Namers have been greatly frowned upon, if only to discourage anyone from just naming a trope after their favorite character or show or something without any consideration for people who aren't familiar with the work/character.

I'm assuming we're in a position where we'd make exceptions for preexisting terms used off the wiki; otherwise if naming a trope after a character or work can be avoided, then it should be. In this case, I think we can, especially if the trope name must be explained by beginning the description with the phrase, "If you're an Indiana Jones fan..."

edited 13th Aug '12 3:23:06 PM by SeanMurrayI

Well, I've never watched any of the Indiana Jones films and I was the one who named the trope that... but I won't claim my experience is indicative of anyone else's.

This is probably a more excusable Trope Namer trope than most, but that still doesn't make it the best name we can think of.

Look, I'll take full responsibility if it turns out things need to be changed. But it doesn't look like we've reached a consensus yet.

Keep Until Better Name Suggested?

The redirect, Weight and Switch, seems like a better name for this. It's clear, concise, and witty.

Keep Until Better Name Suggested, but crosswick under any circumstances.

You know, we might need to update the YKTTW launch page with an explanation of how to make the Laconic. This isn't the first time I've seen a trope launch without one, despite having it in the YKTTW stage. Added it.

Anyway, another vote for Weight and Switch.

Weakly support Weight and Switch.

Swapping a trope namer (an appropriate one at that) for a snowclone?

I guess Weight and Switch is fine by me, but I question the logic.

Weight and Switch isn't a snowclone of a trope. It's a play on a common phrase (that happens to be the name of a trope).

I agree that while we don't technically ban new trope namers, it is discouraged just enough that we are generally able to say "No New Trope Namers" as a shorthand for it.

Weight and Switch is a pretty cute name... I'm good with either one as redirect to the other.

The name of the trope is not only problematic because it is named after a character. The characters widely recognizable real name is not used, just a nickname. This nickname not distinct enough to be immediately connected to the character and it has a few other meanings as well.

Running through our criteria in order:

• Clear: Weight and Switch may not be mind-numbingly, boringly obvious, but it's a huge improvement over Indy Swap, which requires at least passing familiarity with the work to even begin to understand, and has a very ambiguous word.
• Concise: Indy Swap has a very narrow edge here.
• Witty: Another huge win for Weight and Switch.

Weight and Switch is a better name suggested.