Indiana Jones

I think "supernatural" carries an implication of the mystic about it, which aliens aren't (or at least I've never seen magic!/supernatural!aliens).

As for the films, I've only ever seen Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. I think I enjoyed it enough when I saw it, but it obviously didn't make much of an impression on me since I can only remember some guy's betrayal, the Soviets, the fridge scene, and the aliens.

If I were to check out one of the other films, which one would you guys recommend?

All of them, in release order. So Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, then Last Crusade.

If you want only one, then Raiders. That's the one that started it all, and has most of the iconic scenes you see referenced and parodied in other works.

edited 26th Nov '13 9:13:31 AM by stingerbrg

You know, the use of aliens does make some sense. I mean, the Aztecs and Incans are one of the cultures that tend to get slapped with the Ancient Astronauts thing while its rare people give the same treatment to Christianity or Hinduism.

Having Indy interact with greasers and UFO hunters is new. Indy going off in search of Dr. Livingstone is new. But since KOTC is the most generic of the movies, it abandons the new stuff in Act 2, and becomes a greatest hits album. And those two halves don't mesh.

Actually, I don't mind the aliens as such — but the movie sort of shrugs its shoulders and mutters, "aliens, because why not." It literally could be anything and not matter. It's a spaceship dressed up as an Aztec temple. It's protected by booga-booga tribesmen.

Moreoever, you could substitute Salah for Marion, Short Round for Mutt, and Donovan for Spalko and not lose much.

edited 26th Nov '13 10:25:48 PM by johnnyfog

I think the main problem with Crystal Skull was that it didn't acknowledge the fact Indy was 20 years older than the other films. Ford is obviously in pretty good shape for a man now in his 70's (and many don't realize he was in his 40's when they made Raiders), but commenting on the "mileage" he has put on while still doing those stunts would have made a big difference. The best moment of the film was him trying to lasso onto the truck, only to miss and find himself in the next car behind "Damn! Thought that was closer."

Another thing is that Spielberg said that he made the originals as basically big budget B-Movies, not just as an homage to them. So they came requisite with all of the silly stuff you would find in those films like the booby traps, pit of snakes, wrath of god and outrunning the giant boulder. It's just that Raiders made those things seem cool rather than cliche, and audiences didn't quite get the joke the filmmakers were going for. So in Crystal Skull they went with a 50's era vibe to it like the nuke and the fridge and using an anaconda as a rope and the audiences took it as mocking the Indiana Jones movies rather than continuing the joke.

I think the nuke part was a big problem. The town is about to be incinerated, so Indy runs around frantically looking for a way to protect himself from the blast. He finds a refrigerator and hides in it. The town gets vaporized, except (of course) the fridge. No one, not even Indiana Jones would have survived an A-bomb in a refrigerator, even if it was lead-lined. Not only would the radiation get through the lead, but the flying a mile into the air would break every bone in his body.

To be fair, I like the setting for the film. I like that the Commies replaced the Nazis as the bad guys. I liked the movie even after the fridge nuke. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is three words: Shia La Bouef. They tried to pass on the Indiana Jones franchise to the stuttering, dumbass from Transformers. No. Not only is he not a good actor, not only does he play the same role in every movie, but he makes a very unlikeable protagonist.

I think the aliens (I'm sorry, "inter-dimensional beings") didn't make the movie any worse, because it was past the point of no return by then.

edited 26th Nov '13 6:49:58 PM by BaconManiac5000

Really I think the previous Indy moments survived any issues of realism because they fell firmly into rule of cool. Outrunning the boulder, the raft onto the mountain, mine cart ride, motorcycle flip, etc. There was an inherent "oh, badass" element to them.

The nuked fridge thing while inventive in some ways, is just... well not weird I guess, but lacking the in the inherent visual fun of the previous action bits, and as a result the BS meter is more inclined to go off.

edited 27th Nov '13 4:38:24 AM by BorneAgain

Yeah...same with the scene with the apes...it is just not cool when they are so obviously CGI

The Fridge scene was a matter of just sitting somewhere in hiding to survive. The other scenes, on the other hand, were about DOING something to survive.

That'd be what you're going for, right? It's easier to get caught up in action than in a guy hiding as the nuke falls.

As for the different dynamics between Indy and Mutt vs. Indy and Henry . . . Henry CHOSE not to really raise his son. He kept wrapped up in his work. Didn't Mutt's mom avoid telling Indy about Mutt until Kingdom? So you've got Henry Sr. dealing with regret over his own decision, and being surprised by Indy's character and strength, while Indy really didn't have a chance, and so had nothing to regret. It doesn't make up for how the movie played out, but it does add a new factor to the dynamic.

Apply Amy's analysis to KOTC. does it fit?

• RLA Nazis find Ark, open it and die. Indy is irrelevant.
• TLC Nazis find Grail, drink from it and die. Indy useless.
• TOD Good guys use Shiva Stone to make their fields fertile; Bad Guys want to use magic power of Shiva Stone to conquer Britain.
• Ark and Grail have kill Evil spells. Both sides can use Shiva Stone.
• With Ark, Indy says "It belongs in a museum.", but Shiva Stone "belongs in a village."

How does Amy's analysis fit Crystal Shark?

If Communists had got to the Crystal Shark first, would Communists have died or would Communists have used the Powers of Crystal Shark?

It was the Skull's powers that killed the psychic Commie. I don't think Indy was actually involved in that, beyond getting the skull back to its owner. Given that the Commie wanted him to . . .

No change. Another "Indy's an observer who annoys people" movie.

Didn't Cracked do one of those articles where they proved decisively that Indiana Jones sucks both at his job and as a hero? Can't say as if I agree with them but it's a point of view.

They got pages and pages out of his pedophilia alone.

edited 27th Nov '13 8:04:49 PM by johnnyfog

Originally, he was supposed to be a pedophile.

You don't need Cracked, of all things, to know Indiana Jones is a bad archeologist.

Marion Ravenwood was WAY underage when she entered into a relationship with Indiana Jones, even for the time the film was set, in Lucas' original shooting script. That's why she was so completely pissed at Indy at the start of Raiders.

Originally, she was supposed to be eleven.

...how old was indy supposed to be???

Older enough for him to have, as she said, know better. Mibbies early twenties, sort of just after the end of the time period depicted in that Young Indiana Jones Chronicles thing anyway.

The character Indy was ripped of—based on, Charlton Heston in Secret of the Incas, was a chauvinist and a knob. Undoubtedly they started with the Heston template, then toned it down for general audiences. So the kiddy-fiddling might be a relic from that.

From what I have been able to bring myself to read about Lucas, it's one of HIS personal kinks. Which he doesn't get to express much, oh wait. Short Round.

Can you back that up with some data?

From reading around the time I was going through reading about the shooting script and interviews with the creative staff after reading one of the Cracked articles. I'm not saying that Lucas is personally into the kink but his writing is. I just find him skeevy.

Disney is looking at Chris Pratt to star as Indy in a possible revival.