How to be taken seriously in a discussion

Been a while since I've posted much so I figured it was a prime opportunity to make myself seem conceited and pompous by telling you all how to do things.

The internet is not known for hosting logical and thoughtful debates of subjects. This is a partially deserved reputation, but there are things we can do to improve the environment. Discussion and conversation should be about sharing ideas and change minds (even your own) not scoring points and acting like a troll.

• Don't use re-names of things
  • A sports example so I don't pick a side in active debates here, but I've seen it: After the 2007 Spy-Gate incident people thought it would be witty to replace parts of names in Patriots or Belichick with Cheat. You might think you're scoring a point or being funny but all it says is "I hate this team and won't listen to reason". If you're discussing America politics and refer to the Repugnanticans, or the Demoncrats, it's not going to do any good. People who disagree with you will tune you out, and people who agree with you will feel ashamed.
• Admit when you're wrong:
  • you can still explain it, sometimes you use an old source, or it's a controversial subject where objective truth is hard to find, but, if someone cites information opposite of what you've used, at least address the issue and work towards a better answer. It could be something where you're both using biased sources of data and the truth lies between
• Be cognizant of your biases
  • This is hard but important, you don't realize how much bias influences your thought processes. It won't make you lie and manipulate data, but it can make you read something and get a different conclusion from someone else, I've seen this happen in my personal life a few times recently.
• Don't lie and manipulate data
  • you're on the goddamn internet, you're a google search or two away from getting caught
• Don't be a troll
  • Self explanatory
• Be polite
  • I don't mean be a puss bag, but it's pretty much the culmination of all of the above. If you're discussing abortion don't refer to the opposing side as "pro-baby murder" lie about the statistics, personally insult the other people, refuse to acknowledge their points and just act historonic. Try not to make things personal.
• Don't take offense
  • If possible avoid taking offense at things, not to say you can't find something hateful offensive, but don't type an invective response at the person for being offensive, if you can't calm down, walk away and come back when you can address it. Depending on the situation and the person they might not have meant to be offensive, or might learn something when you tell them what they said was offensive because of XYZ.

So yeah. Add your own, or feel free to call me out if you think I'm being overly nitpicky or what ever. This is just what I've observed and my personal feelings, largely informed by how I react to things myself.

edited 16th Jul '12 1:56:20 PM by MEPT72

-Don't be the guy who posts smilies in every single post. Especially not every single sentence in your post. It just makes you look like you're still 4 years old. Sadly I've seen 80 year old guys that do this stupid crap on some forums.

-In a debate or technical discussion, use your own words. Don't just copy and paste a wiki article.

:3

AND THIS IS WHY I NEVER TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY, ZERSK.

also

ohai honey how are you

Well that's okay. :3 I mean, I can't take myself seriously, I dunno why I should expect others to. :p

And hai Mepty! :D

edited 16th Jul '12 11:56:20 PM by Zersk

I agree with all that. Good show. Three of my own:

• Discussion is not a competition. Debate isn't, either, despite the common assumption. Enter every thread under the assumption that your life does not depend on you "winning" what is ostensibly intellectual discourse.
• Similarly, it isn't actually all-important to sound smarter than everyone else. Speak like a person. If I want to read a textbook, I'll read a textbook.
• My grandfather once told me that everyone in the world knows something you don't. Be willing to learn.

• Don't make false or exaggerated claims. It won't help.

edited 17th Jul '12 12:02:27 AM by Bookyangel2438

Remember that tone does in fact carry in written word. It's just harder to use and properly gauge. This is why word choice and sentence structure are very important. If multiple people are considering you to be aggressive and angry look at your word choices and the way you make sentences.

Is the word "you" involved in the general sense? Are you swearing or using words like "enraged" or "irritated"? Do you ALL CAPS things for emphasis a lot?

Is it something else?

Look at how you write and how people react to it and edit yourself to adapt. The right words at the right time get through to people. The wrong words leave people wondering why you're a dick or a child molester (example: many an unfortunate okcupid profile).

edited 17th Jul '12 12:04:39 AM by Aondeug

To add to Exelixi's comments, be mindful when someone mentions their qualifications on a given subject. If someone has studied genetics in a formal academic environment, you should probably shut the hell up and at least listen to what they have to say about autism or other developmental disorders before you dismiss them entirely.

Also, this website doesn't seem to have this problem from what little I've seen, but on the flip side, don't start throwing titles at people to intimidate them. Expertise and credentials are not equal to perfection, and when having a discussion on a subject of which you are highly knowledgeable, the courteous action to take is to lead and guide the discussion and analysis of the subject, not to dominate the discussion.

Just a minor nitpick of mine: I have a hard - but not impossible - time taking someone seriously when their avatar is some sort of pony or an anime character being sexually assaulted. Then again, I can carry on a fascinating debate about global capitalism and the Arab Spring with a guy who calls himself breadloaf, so take that with a grain of salt.

edited 17th Jul '12 12:12:50 AM by Aprilla

So wait.

I shouldn't use all caps, ignore the other person's argument, post smilies after every sentence and just generally be an asshole?

I call bullshit on that.

You may do this in OTC.

I don't know what y'all are talking about. Similes are totally okay, dammit.

Not metaphors, though. They are the albatrosses around the argumentative neck.

That's just like...your opinion, man.

BE AS LIKE THE CUP OF TEA CLEANLY SIFTED ON A WARM SUMMER'S DAY IN THE MEADOW WHERE TURTLES AND COCONUTS ROAM.

Scribbly: No that would be a simile, those are okay. :3

I'm of the opinion that if you're trying to persuade others and be taken seriously on a forum, you're doing it wrong.

Obviously, everyone can ignore what I just said.

It's fine to not want to be taken seriously, the only request is to keep it out of a serious conversation. This isn't one, but if people get into a discussion about the implications of failed Post Communist Transitions in Eastern and Central Eastern Europe, and you keep making like, I dunno, My Little Pony jokes and references.

Wrong time wrong place.

Internet or not you need to keep a few things in mind:

• You should be willing to lose/have your mind changed
• Your opponent might not
• Know who you're arguing with, if they're someone who's just going to hector, assault, and lie, then just ditch the conversation
• There's a difference between being mistaken and wrong, if someone disagrees with you about something, don't assume the worse to start
  • Controversial example: people can disagree with Gay Marriage out of their beliefs but actually have nothing against gay people just don't want the term marriage applied that way. If you believe in equal marriage rights for all, don't assume the person is a hateful homophobe, but instead give the person a chance to prove they're only mistaken (not bad, not evil, just disagree with you

Also, hey yeah I'm back for the time being, till I get distracted and forget to sign on here again for 3-4 months then come back with some other excuse to exert my "wisdom" upon you.

To exert my "wisdom" on you.

Bow chika wow wow?

I promise not to get any in your hair.

Oh, another and I apologize for the double post, but regardless of the format NEVER say:

• I don't care what anyone says but __________

If you don't care what people have to say, then why are you in a discussion.

Besides being bad for you, it tells others that you're not open to actual communication. It does increase the probability of things devolving into a shouting match.

We don't want those.

Make sure your word your points as clear as possible and with class.

I know sometimes in forums you have mixed groups of all sorts of backgrounds and it's sometimes possible to offend someone without trying. But try and use good judgement in saying your point.

Example: I don't understand why African American Urban culture encourages the use of the "n" word, but other groups can't regardless of their intent.

VS.

Well if Jay Z and Snoop Dogg call each other N####R why can't I use it?! I ain't being hateful!

I AM THE GREAT NECROMANCER! ARISE THREAD ARISE!

Anyway, one quick tip for not so much being taken seriously, but having better discussions on the subject of religion:

• Just accept the fact that the myths of any religion sound ridiculous to people not raised in them
• Accept that all religions have a set of ethics that is generally good
• Make it clear when you're arguing against the institution or the beliefs
  • Also try to avoid painting the daily normal believers with too broad a brush
• Do not insult the intelligence or moral worth of your opponents. If you believe in god I don't think you're dumb for doing so, don't think I'm amoral because I don't follow your creed or any supernatural creed

Some of this applies to political beliefs too, you don't have to worry about the religious mythos (in most cases) but you do have to worry about reducto ad absurdium.

Also, don't try to sound intimidating over the freakin' internet. It doesn't work and makes you sound like an idiot.

If you have an issue with what another member of the discussion is saying, address your comments to them, don't speak about them. Don't say things like, "Clearly resetlocksley doesn't understand why..."

Don't misquote someone or trim quotes to make it sound like they're saying something that they aren't.

Proper grammar, punctuation and capitalization adds to the illusion that you know what you are talking about.

Use that to your advantage, young padawan.