Sexism and Men's Issues

I got a chip on the shoulder with some victim activists because of that.

In other words some of them act like the rape or traumatic experience you suffered should be the epicenter of your life and that being a victim should be what defines you.

This pisses me off to no end, instead of seeking justice and giving people the means to move on they want to make you a martyr.

That's part of the demonic-rapist mindset, which does more harm than good.

But it's hard to determine where to place it, since for some people it is that bad, while others don't particularly mind that much. I mean, if someone doen't realise it was rape, is that really so bad, from that person's point of view? People have this tendency to be, "You were raped, that's horrible, and you should feel horrible!" about it. Yes, it's bad, but let the person decide for himself how bad it is.

You'd be surprised how quickly "victim advocates" turn on actual victims who don't fall in line with their ideology.

Like, one time I saw a woman in the "Women Against Feminism" Tumblr tag saying that she doesn't like feminism because, even though she was raped, she knows that "not all men are monsters".

Now, whether you agree with her stance or not, what happened next was absolutely deplorable. She was immediately dogpiled by a horde of angry bloggers, one of whom had the audacity to say, "Whatever, you probably weren't raped because you're too ugly."

I really wish I could find that post again...

edited 14th Jul '15 3:57:28 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Depressing isn't it?

Wait, what? How the hell did you get that from any of the last page of discussion?

Um, wow. Nothing I said even begins to imply that.

In fact, I specifically avoided identifying the Tumblr users as "feminists" because I knew that people would accuse me of hating all feminists for talking about the incident. Guess that didn't work.

edited 15th Jul '15 12:02:21 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Take it easy with the directed hyperboles, please.

Nothing like a good strawman to knock down, eh.

On the internet there is the GIFT problem, making personal attacks against people you disagree with is too easy.

Tumblr is infamous for that and more often than not they undermine whatever they promote due to their toxicity.

I was replying to Tye Dye's post.

edited 14th Jul '15 6:24:49 PM by AngelusNox

Let's try to read each other's posts more carefully, OK?

edited 14th Jul '15 5:30:43 PM by BestOf

Yeah, I can handle my family telling me that I should be more hurt than I am by my ex and her years of abusiveness cos they were "close to the action" and they're my family. But friends, close or not, have no right telling me I should be reclusive and unable to trust women. ESPECIALLY since few of them have been abused in any way. Funnily, it's actually other victims of rape and/or abusive relationships who leave me to decide how hurt I am (which isn't a lot- I'm not gonna let some dickhole lady ruin me, no-one will ruin me). Yeah, the experience still hurts, especially since her recent attempt at baby-trapping me and threatening the boy to make me sleep with her. But my thinking is- if you're not dead or dying things can only get better.

I don't think that's funny or odd at all; it makes perfect sense. After all, they've been where you've been, so they know what it's like to have other people try to dictate how they should let their trauma affect them.

Or were you being sarcastic when you said "funnily enough"?

By the way, as long as we're talking about male rape, there's something interesting (by which I mean disturbing) that I heard recently. Apparently, the word "fuckboy" was originally used to describe male prisoners who were easy targets for rape.

Does anyone have any confirmation for that? If it's true, it's kind of despicable that we've let it become part of our common lexicon.

edited 15th Jul '15 12:13:08 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

Last I've seen, it's part of AAVE used to mean "tool" or something to that extent.

And folks are rather pissed that people keep trying to make the terminology into something it's not.

I recall seeing something about it. But I couldn't say if it ever did mean "bottom" or so, in addition to its current meaning of (typically misogynist) jackass.

The closest I could find is this Urban Dictionary definition from 2006.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuck+boy&defid=2121227

And to one up myself, here's a similar definition from 1996.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5F-YNZRv-VMC&pg=PA406&lpg=PA406&dq=fuckboy+2002+prison&source=bl&ots=mju1Uw4H_l&sig=JqGFrKphaTr2tkmcrGQ523lDxjQ&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=fuckboy%202002%20prison&f=false

edited 17th Jul '15 12:46:03 AM by Shotguner159

Jesus.

I'm going to try to be an optimist and say that half the people who use that term casually would be mortified if they knew about that definition.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Check out this essay from 1908, The Legal Subjection of Men, published in response to John Stuart Mill's The Subjection of Women.

I find it fascinating that a lot of the language used here mirrors current discourse online.

edited 17th Jul '15 7:04:06 PM by majoraoftime

tl;dr: "It's unfair for feminists to complain about being treated unfairly when I'm still not getting laid as frequently as I should be."

At least do a serious critique of Bax, will ya? I'm tired of snark against women and men who advocate for their rights, regardless of whom it is coming from. Dismissing complaints with 'he wants to get laid more' is just as bad as dismissing women's complaints in court with 'she just wants more money and benefits from men' or some other shit.

Belfort Bax was, indeed, not fond of the suffragists of those times. And there's some bias and insults in his writings, no argument on that (his essay The Fraud of Feminism is quite wrong and appalling).

Here, he has a valid point. Not one that can be extended to every court case or every legal area (there are areas where men indeed do have some advantage), but which also is understandable. Again, it depends on the areas and the complaints, and from nation to nation, and what punishment is applied. I'm talking about the current times, not the times of the Belfort guy.

This is why I prefer to pick a few valid points from both MIA's and feminists, while leaving other stuff in their discourse out. I'm not one to inherently pick a side over the other, and dismiss the other side's points as a whole.

So, question time: besides well known areas such as the custody of children, in what areas can we find a pro-woman bias? I know the areas where there is a pro-man bias (but again, they have variations from country to country), but I'm not entirely aware of the other areas.

edited 18th Jul '15 7:10:22 AM by Quag15

Education, specifically the training of teachers?

Not too sure if this counts, but generally speaking if a man and woman have committed the same crime the man will get a longer sentence. And in America I think more men have been given the death sentence than women. Yes, it's born from outdated, patronising attitudes towards women, but it's male prisoners being hurt by it.

edited 18th Jul '15 7:19:47 AM by OdinsLeftEye

I was talking more in terms of court cases, but you raise a good point. There's always a bigger suspicion in regards to male teachers than female teachers, especially the younger the students are. Do we have any statistics on false rape and paedophilia accusations between male and female teachers? For the sake of comparison.

This is very important. The American prisonal system is too ugly, violent and biased, especially towards black men.

edited 18th Jul '15 7:26:33 AM by Quag15

I don't, but judging from the news, male teachers accused of having sexual relations with their students are outright arrested or ostracized, even if they aren't guilty. Something around 10 to life in prison.

While female teachers, found proven and guilty of having sexual relationships with one or several students receive a slap on the wrist sentences or get a much lighter sentence than men.