Sexism and Men's Issues

I dunno about the rest of it, but this part here:

could be because men are usually the older one in the relationship.

That's definitely a variable as well, for sure.

Or the fact that whenever our wives turn around we're stuffing ourselves with bacon.

You are correct. Women live longer than men overall, but for men marriage lengthens the life expectancy and for women it shortens it.

Another factor might be maternal death. Although it's more acceptable now for couples to have children without getting married, most of them still tie the knot first. So the majority of women having babies—and thus the majority of women dying from it—will be married, and that will skew the life expectancy down a bit.

edited 20th Jun '12 1:44:23 PM by Karalora

True, not to mention the fact that a pregnancy does do some rather drastic things to the female body.

Or to put it differently, pushing out a child can't be terribly good for your bone structure, as opposed to not ever pushing one out. Which also might have something to do with statistics on various bone issues that older women encounter, besides the predisposition to osteoporosis in the first place.

edited 20th Jun '12 1:46:51 PM by Barkey

I didn't really think about the pregnancy part as that is quite a lot of stress on the physical health of a woman.

Men in general have a shorter lifespan than women, that's just biology, so the only way to 'equalize' that is through genetic engineering of some sort. There's also the issue that having two X chromosomes tends to get you better luck on genes.

I'm not sure how much I like daycare but in this age of two-working parents, it seems that's the easiest way of offloading child raising tasks from the woman and be able to share it more evenly between both parents. But generally, there's always a person who has a lower income in a relationship and thus have less cost for taking a few months off work to help with a new born baby. Canada already has equal parental leave, America should adopt... at least SOME parental leave.

That's the first explanation that came to my mind, as well. Another might be that since women tend to both live longer and marry men who are already older, they are also more likely to suffer the negative health consequences of losing someone who's been a part of their lives for what might be decades. When my grandfather died, my grandmother seemed to visibly age a decade within the space of one year out of, essentially, grief - men are probably not immune to that effect, but they find themselves in that situation less often.

Wanted to post this here, as it's somewhat relevant: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13404750340A67700100.

I think a majority of this "male oppression" is because we have weak men that are more concerned with meeting a societal norm or expectation rather than doing that which is best for them and their immediate surroundings and life.

I'm a stay at home dad. I clean the house. I take care of my daughter all day. I cook probably 90% of the meals in the house. My wife is the one who makes money in our family, because she wants me to stay at home with my girl. I don't feel like less of a man because the things I do are stereotyped as "wife's work" by traditional American values. I challenge anyone to say that what I'm doing is making me less of a man. I still grow my beard. I still have a mane of hair on my chest. And last I checked, my cock and balls are still in the right place and capable of taking part in making children. Oh well... Less enlightened minds, and whatnot.

As far as the "men unable to be perceived as sexually attractive"... I agree and disagree to a point. I mean, as I see it, women are more aesthetically appealing. It's like... Men are sort of like SU Vs or trucks/lorries - very utilitarian and clunky looking. Women are like sportscars, all nice looking and impressive (Please don't try to turn this obtuse observation into a "HE THINKS MEN SHOULD DO ALL THE WORK BECAUSE THEY'RE TRUCKS AND WOMEN ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SEXY AND USELESS BECAUSE THEY'RE SPORTSCARS"... It's not the point I'm making.)

But still... There's very attractive men out there. This is coming from a confirmed hetero bro.

I mean, have you SEEN Jon Hamm? I don't think it gets more masculine-looking than him, and the guy fucking pisses sexiness and shits testosterone.

Well, if you put any stock into evolutionary psychology, mammals are programmed to see something soft, small, and delicate as aesthetically pleasant. It's supposedly because mammal children take longer to nurture.

I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it's a place to start.

^^ That is my feeling in particular. There are tough standards put on men to act a particular way but they are set by men. That is what causes the less severe reaction against male sexism compared with female sexism. Women standards are set by men, men standards are set by men.

So while still oppressive, we have the power in ourselves to change the situation while women must fight with an outside group. This is primarily why I'm fairly optimistic about any situation in which men have sexism issues.

I've never really had trouble acknowledging that a dude is attractive, and it's probably in the exact same vein as a woman acknowledging that of another woman, it's pretty much jealousy.

I mean fuck, I'd give up a testicle to look like Eric Bana. I'd get so much tail.

@breadloaf ... or the believe that puts the responsibility on men in both cases is living sexism.
I really don't know if that is the case, but knowing that biases not only affect judgement, but even perception (and no one is immune to that), I'm wondering if that believe - that I share on an emotional level - is an accurate description of reality.
At least it fits briefly in a "men are active, women are passive" narrative.

I don't think that it's a question of if a particular guy is attractive. It's more like, "are things normally associated with men attractive"?

Like body hair, for example. Men tend to be hairier, but this is generally considered less attractive. Likewise, short hair (on the head) as opposed to long hair.

Not for this girl. I like a rug.

Had a girlfriend once who got me to wax my chest because she was curious how it would look.

Never doing that again. Not even if you hold a gun to the head of the greatest love of my life. Chest hair stays. I don't have a forest by any means as it is.

Got really fucking itchy, and looking at my chest in the mirror I felt like I was prepubescent or some shit. The other thing she was always trying to do and never really got anywhere with was get me to grow my hair out a little longer, she understood that I had to keep in military regs, but I get a razor fade on the sides for a reason, zero maintenance.

Plus I get these weird hair wings where the side of my skull meets the top that are impossible to keep down once the hair has gotten that long, it sucks. High fade it is.

My body hair is really weird. I can't grow a full beard (just a thin mustache and soul patch, even if I let it grow for months), I'm completely hairless on my torso, my arms are arms and legs are moderately hairy.

I've got a very full beard (enough of one that people make Geico Caveman jokes, and I respond by saying that I'm getting a role as Osama Bin Laden); it has acquired far more positive comments from males (all of which, to my knowledge, were platonic) than it has from females.

As I'm not in the dating scene and don't normally go around shirtless anymore, my chest fur ("hair" is not a strong enough word) is not visible enough for commentary.

Just like women, different looks appeal to dfferent people.

I know girls who drool over huge body builders. While I can appreciate the character traits like discipline, determination, and sportsmanship it takes to condition your body like that, I find it as sexually attractive as going to Kenya and banging a rhino.

Maybe it's the art degree, but give me anyone, no matter how tradtional, odd, or whatever and I can point out their asthetic qualities, their beauties, and their ugliness. There is an art movement for everone!

My boyfriend told me of how Angelina Jolie and Leonardo De Caprio were visiting with an African tribe. Their leader couldn't stop laughing because he found them to be the two ugliest people he had ever seen.

People just need to stop giving so much of a damn on all the wrong issues. I don't care if some person on the street thinks I'm gorgeous or smart or a "real" woman. I care about the quality of my relationships and my work.

I'm trying to teach my son the same thing. He wanted a mohawk. So, we went to the barber and now he has a full mohawk all the way to his neck. I got him to keep just a little on the sides to help with sunburn. He's getting teased some yes, but this is one way he is learning who's opinion is important: his. He is happy to have it and is standing up to peer pressure now. I can only do all I can to keep encouraging and supporting him so when he is older and is figuring out what kind of man he is, it'll be on his terms and no one elses. Not even mine.

I do have a question, though. Isn't physical appearance one area where men have it a lot easier if they don't care to maintain it?

I mean, from what I know, if a male lets his appearance go to pot, gets a beer belly, an unshaven head of hair and a beard, not much will happen. If a woman is overweight and has leg hair, she'll be actively harassed by males because she's ugly. Is that the case, or am I just running on media stereotypes here?

The latter. Really, neither is treated too favorably, but most people tend to keep their insults in their head or wait to insult others behind their back rather than to their face about that kind of stuff.

I don't know that I've ever seen women be harassed for being ugly, at least not while they were present. Maybe men make nasty comments about them once they're gone, I don't know.

I think it depends which why relationship powers swing. Men who let their appearance go to crap, do they have the same reduction in chance of getting chicks compared to women who let their appearance go to crap? That and, what of things out of a person's control (like face structure, colour etc), do they affect men and women equally?

I would doubt that it does.

^

If she's outstandingly ugly, then yeah, odds are it'll happen.

Most groups of regular guys will make observations about women who walk in or out of a place. Outstandingly hot or outstandingly ugly anyway, your average women who isn't a 10 or a 1 probably won't really be cause for comment.

I'm personally less concerned about the idea of relationship issues than I am about active harassment and bullying; it's good to hear from our female members that it doesn't usually get that far in the adult world.

From what all the boys and men around tell me, as well as my observation, male on male bullying is more of a problem than female to male bullying in general. Female to male bullying or harassment also seems to have very specific enviroments or contexts to exist, like night clubs, maybe a gym, but not every day things like grocery shopping.

Females are their own worst enemy when it comes to bullying, pressure, and harassment to fit into a certain mold. Men seem to be more relaxed unless they are in a competitive situation like sports.

Men are also more likely to use harassment as a form of endearment than women. Just go into a barracks, locker room, or something of that nature. They don't hug, they talk shit.