Marvel's Avengers Assemble

Avengers Assemble had no interest in being its own strong story

It wanted to be supplementary material to the movies but it also couldn’t be that really, it wasn’t allowed to fill in blanks that the movies might get to. So it was constantly a mercurial thing, always changing its face in desperate quest to imitate its big brother

You know what I thought about this show? It may be crazy, but...

I know this case was about the timing, but Filmation's animated version of its own live-action series Filmation's Ghostbusters flopped because kids who just saw the other Ghostbusters (1984) were dissapointed that they (Filmation's ones) aren't the real Ghostbusters.

Yeah, I know that Avengers Assemble was made to be similar to the movies, but if the show was made as a sequel to its predecessor, it would never have been the longest running Marvel cartoon. In other words, kids that just saw The Avengers on the big screen would have been dissapointed if this show was different enough from the movies.

(sorry, I have accidentally posted it halfway through my intended writing)

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on May 14th 2019 at 11:38:36 AM

Well early on, they did try to market Assemble as a continuation of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. There was even a flashback where the Avengers took on Molecule Man, and they looked exactly like their EMH counterparts. Of course, that made no goddamn sense as the show shares pretty much nothing in common with its predecessor.

Maybe this was a remnant of the original idea... On the other hand, though, I already am aware of the initial plan. Plus, I do have a little request: can I please see a video example of what did you describe?

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on May 14th 2019 at 12:02:23 PM

I only saw that episode once and I swear they BARELY looked like they did in EMH...

x2: Starting from 0:21. The Season One pilot also had EMH's Avengers Mansion blown to bits.

That being said, a recent edition of the Marvel Guidebook gave Assemble (and the rest of the current Marvel Animated Universe, barring Marvel's Spider-Man due to coming out before the show) and EMH two different universe designations.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on May 14th 2019 at 5:29:59 AM

Got .

Edited by chasemaddigan on May 14th 2019 at 5:33:33 AM

Thanks!

To be fair, even the shows that were genuinely intended to be in the same continuity and even had crossovers didn't have a good continuity between them. USM introduced Klaw with his classic design and as a random mook, only for Assemble to introduce him with his movie design and a giant monster form in its third season. Two completely different takes on Triton were despicted in different series. The Guardians of the Galaxy suddenly changed designs and personality mid-show in Assemble to match their own cartoon. Cartoon which inexplicably went from being in the Assemble continuity to the Marvel's Spider-Man continuity. And I am sure I could find more examples with a few research.

Yeah, you just scratched the surface of Earth-12041 (Marvel Animated Universe of today)'s laundry list of continuity issues. It definitely not DCAU, despite ironically having Paul Dini on board as one of the forefathers with Ultimate Spider-Man (the show)'s creation.

Jeph Loeb's insistence on a looser, one-off continuity approach from the start really diamonded over time into a mess when the shows tried to be more traditionally serialized under Stephen Wacker.

You gotta love how Jeph Loeb insisted on this looser continuity so the show would be easier to follow for little kids... and now as a result the continuity has become such a giant mess nobody can follow it correctly.

If I can give any praise to this "shared universe," they did make Supergiant more interesting by making her be one of Quill's many exes that hate him. Granted, this can't even be done consistently.

This whole "universe" is just a corporate cash-grab, made to essentially be commercials for the movies, and sell toys to kids. Which as a whole, they're godawful and make no sense.

Ultimately it goes to show how restrictive Art is when made for no other purpose than profits. Honestly we should just get rid of IP laws and allow creators to continue EMH.

Edited by Moroaica on May 16th 2019 at 7:08:46 AM

You can't even say art when restricted to pulling profits is bad because Sherlock Holmes was made to sell magazine subscriptions back when novels were sold as subscriptions and that turned out really good.

I mean, most Transformers cartoons are glorified toy commercials, but most of them tend to be quite good.

It's not really that it's art made for profits. I think the middling quality of the shows are likely just apathy, frequently changing writers, and restrictive executive mandates. I don't think the series needed to be EMH or closer to the comics, I just think it needed to be better written.

I don't even think that the MCU would have been that bad a jumping off point for a show, even if I think the cartoons did play a big part in me feeling burnout toward the universe (due to it being everywhere...).

They should have just used a similar aesthetic (and not lazily reuse comic designs when they don't have an MCU character to base it off), but veered in a different direction like Batman: The Animated Series did.

Edited by Etheru on May 16th 2019 at 8:40:06 AM

Look, the problem is how it was executed, along with creative shake-ups et al. This entire 'verse that started with Ultimate Spider-Man (and presumably, along with maybe, ends with Marvel's Spider-Man^Huh? that show's Spider-Man appeared on Avengers Assemble and Guardians of the Galaxy because of the Continuity Snarl trope, so I consider Marvel's Spider-Man part of this 'verse of 2010s) had potential and did have some good stuff, but ultimately it's a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot. Plus, some (not all, of course!) are focusing more on what was wrong.

You all raise some good points, though.

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on May 16th 2019 at 1:25:16 PM

That was basically my point too, that the execution was wasted.

I thought that Ultimate Spider-Man had one of the most favorite reinterpretations of Doctor Octopus (although predominantly first season only; he kind of lost a lot of his luster for me as they kept trying to make his design closer to the comics). Probably one of my favorite adaptations of the character alongside the Spectacular incarnation and Dr. Olivia Octavius in Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, especially through her use of Soft Robotics.

I also liked the idea of Harry Osborn as Venom, but wish he had stayed Venom throughout the series' run, or at least did more as Anti-Venom; Harry Osborn as Venom is just such a great concept, but they hardly did much with it. I was actually really happy to learn that Spider-Man (PS4) hinted that Harry Osborn is going to be that universe's incarnation of Venom.

I also enjoy Marvel's Spider-Man, even if it otherwise feels pretty familiar a lot of the time (some of it seems a bit fanservice-y to those familiar with Spectacular, especially the main plot twist of the Season 1 finale), but I like its use of much less famous characters. My favorite would probably have to be the use of the Francine Frye Electro. Granted, I love when obscure or otherwise underused characters are used.

I also watched a bit of the Black Vortex event from Guardians of the Galaxy (predominantly to see Gamora's segment, which was animated by Mercury Filmworks), and the Art Shifted segments are interesting, at the least. Although Groot's segment was super weird due to the fact the viewer gets to hear him speak English, with everyone else simply saying "I am [name]", and the freaked out Groot can't understand them at all. It's a fairly creepy segment. Even Drax's segment, which references his original costume and human name, is pretty fun (even if the superhero parody gimmick overstayed its welcome).

Anyway, ignore the rambler. lol

I didn't say art for profit was inherently not good (tho IMO it would be better if it wasn't), but that it was restrictive, which can lead to trash like Avengers Assemble.

The 80s transformers cartoon was absolute garbage. The others were made for toys but it wasn't quite as egregious. Transformers Animated and Transformers Prime took some concepts from the Bayformers films, but carved their own identity. There definitely is a spectrum of how toyetic a show is.

Avengers EMH isn't better than Assemble purely because it is more similar to comics (tho I personally find the aesthetics much better). But because Assemble has to be "like the movies" it is highly restricted in creativity. EMH is like the comics because the comics have a lot of great stories, but they take stuff from the films when it improved the setting.

Assemble will forever be an Ashcan Copy of the films.

Edited by Moroaica on May 16th 2019 at 10:01:00 AM

What's shameful is that Assemble was somehow able to adapt comics like the Thunderbolts.

Such an atrocious tragedy.

Last month, Newsarama had an interview with Marvel Animation's Cort Lane about the company's future.

To not contradict myself on an earlier post in this thread, I didn't really like how in the video about the planned Captain Marvel animated series that part with "The fall of Marvel Animation" was announced like it was "Hallelujah!" (at least in my opinion). I was also angry on the shown reports on this video that Marvel Animation is reportedly shutting down. Now I found something that I hope is helpful. And now I've explained my earlier posts here.

I found no better thread to post this.

So what's the gist, that Marvel Animation still has some things going on?

Yes.

But for the time being, I recommend patience, not impulsiveness.

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on May 28th 2019 at 11:05:00 AM

I think they've just been restructured to work on lower budget series or specials, such as the Marvel Rising shorts (although those have been surprisingly decent) or the LEGO Marvel's Spider-Man shorts.

It's modern day Marvel Animation that makes me miss the days of Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow and The Invincible Iron Man

At least both tried to do something new. Sure, the latter was the most boring, anti-fun animated feature out of the whole line while the former was clearly a pilot for a Spin-Offspring tv series, but at least they did took some risks.

I don't think Marvel Animation was restructured, it's just business as usual. I think more will be announced at the San Diego Comic-Con.

Just hang tight, folks.