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Kiss X Sis (input needed)
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Kiss X Sis (input needed):

 51 Linhasxoc, Sun, 6th May '12 8:12:05 PM from Wisconsin Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Go Pack Go
Honestly, having read through the manga, I can't justify keeping this. The whole thing between Keita and his sisters is one thing, and I'd argue to keep is it was just that, the classmate, and the teacher. The teacher's sister (the aforementioned 13-14 year old who looks younger) is where I draw the line; there really isn't any way that isn't pedobait.

Is it nudity? Sex jokes? There's not any sex is there?

even older skool
What I remember regarding the token: pantyshots, panty flashing, no-panty flashing (censored by bright white light), jokes about everyone else's attempts to seduce Keita.

Regarding other characters: No sex that I know of, and the closest anyone gets is in the Balanced Harem entry on the page: As the manga has gone on, Kiryuu-sensei has moved up to come close to equal with Ako and Riko, sharply rearranging the balance. In chapter 54, Keita rather enthusiastically misinterprets her request for a kiss as a request to sleep together, jumping for the opportunity after usually shying away from it with his step-sisters for so long. Too bad for him it embarrasses her so much she shuts her door in his face.

The animated gif that I mentioned earlier depicts Keita fingering either Ako or Riko, although as I said earlier it might be from fanart or one of the frequent ImagineSpots.

 54 Martello, Sun, 6th May '12 9:29:12 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
I don't know any people think an Imagine Spot makes a porn or pedoshit scene ok. It doesn't.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
even older skool
One sex scene does not a porn make, and I mentioned no pedo-relevant imagining. Sorry for any confusion.

 56 Linhasxoc, Sun, 6th May '12 10:36:14 PM from Wisconsin Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Go Pack Go
Ignoring the token for now, this actually a bit of an interesting case study in whether a story consisting largely of really blatant fanservice but no actual explicit sex counts against the policy.

As an example, there's a scene in the manga where one character nearly performs oral sex on another. The character performing passes out from drunkenness before the act can be performed, and all naughty bits are censored by towels, arms/legs, the border of the panel, etc., so it's not explicit sex, but it really pushes it, and I'd be kind of interested in seeing how the P5 would react to that.

Lessee here. Saw a bit of it out of morbid curiosity after it came up on the cutlist, and boy was it the motherlode.

  • Urine fetishism explicitly shown - I don't give a fuck about your fetishes, but this does not belong in a family friendly website. One kid pees on the other kid, and it's absolutely played for fap material.
  • Kid has boner. Sister grabs boner. SO NOT PEDOSHIT QQ. Yeah no.
  • All the parties concerned are 16 or younger
  • The kids are shown to masturbate, get wet and all that jazz.

Yeah, there's no actual sex involved as far as I know (who knows - there might be), but this is literally one of the most fucked up animes I've ever seen. It's ridiculously skeevy, and blatantly panders to the creep (and pedophile) demographic.

I dunno about you guys, but Martello, I'm pretty sure you want this cut.

Now excuse me while I bring out my soap and lye, and try to excise myself from any watchlists I might be under.

[down]Yeah, might have been unclear there. I honestly don't care about the fetishism other than the fact that it involves kids. That being said, while I know that tvtropes doesn't go for notability, Game of Thrones and Sex and the City are significantly more mainstream forms of entertainment than an obscure perv anime.

edited 6th May '12 11:42:22 PM by Pleaides

 
 58 A Groupie, Sun, 6th May '12 11:27:31 PM from City of Angelic Devils
sick of it all
I'd say it's the age of the characters + target market that is why this deserves a cut.

This website can feature works that are not Family Friendly (which is why we can have pages on Game of Thrones and Sex and the City), it just can't talk about them in a non Family Friendly way in the trope pages. And fetishism IMO shouldn't be enough for a cut alone, unless the fetish involves attraction to children or involves children.

edited 6th May '12 11:27:47 PM by AGroupie

?
 59 Martello, Mon, 7th May '12 3:39:10 AM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
It's definitely pedoshit. I already voted to cut it a while ago.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
 60 Komodin, Mon, 7th May '12 4:01:25 AM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Zone Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Hm, with all the info provided in this thread, with some gumshoein' of my own on the side, I'm gonna have to give this a devilhead too. It appears rather pedobait-ish, from what I've seen.
 61 A Stray Bard, Mon, 7th May '12 4:02:19 AM from 867-5309 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Sega's Last Hope
After reading through a few chapters of the manga, it looks like blatant fanservice at best, softcore porn at worst. There's no plot to speak of; I don't see any reason this should be kept.
 62 Pyrite, Mon, 7th May '12 5:38:54 AM from Right. Beneath. You. Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
Manga review, 22 chapters in: Okay, I have good news and bad news.

Good news: No explicit depiction of nipples, genitalia or penetrative sex.

Bad news: Explicit depiction of damn near everything else, damn near all the time.

Okay, so I exaggerate a little, but content basically goes all the way up to foreplay and masturbation. This is worse than Eiken. Eiken was just chock-full of suggestive content; Kiss X Sis goes beyond suggestion and all the way into outright explication. Now I know that one or two explicit scenes doesn't indicate pornography, but this happens about once every 2-3 chapters.

It's unfair to compare it to Chu-Bra!!, though. I suggested that Chu-Bra!! should be cut because it's about panty shots of 12-year-olds rendered in loving detail - hence, "paedo-pandering" - even though nothing overtly sexual actually occurs. Kiss X Sis's characters are older: 15 - 16 years old, and at an age where youngsters would be expected to be curious about sex. The problem comes because the acts performed and the detail they're depicted in would be enough to classify it as "softcore porn".

So, how's the anime version holding up?tongue

edited 7th May '12 7:36:16 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
 63 tdgoodrich 1, Mon, 7th May '12 6:07:34 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Any Poor Souls Who Trespass Against Us...
[up]Like I said earlier in the thread, not so great. I couldn't go into detail while keeping it PG, but yeah, all the above. Foreplay, heavy petting, etc. Basically softcore porn. While the TV anime is clean-and-lock worthy, the OVAs push it well into the "burn and don't look back" territory.

edited 7th May '12 6:09:52 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 64 Pyrite, Mon, 7th May '12 6:33:28 AM from Right. Beneath. You. Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
Hmmm. The TV anime is clean-and-lockworthy? That's good to know, although we'll need independent confirmation just to be safe. The OVAs being more explicit makes more sense, since there's no longer any need to keep it clean for broadcast.

And apologies for the language, because I'm a little inconsistent when it comes to calling it as I see it.

edited 7th May '12 6:34:52 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
 65 Meeble, Mon, 7th May '12 7:04:30 AM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
From what I've seen so far, I don't think that this is something that would qualify as porn for me. It's about as risque as you could possibly get without being porn, but still not quite there.

The determining factor for me then will be the "pedobait" one. While I give a lot more leeway to something that sexualizes 15-16 year olds than something that treats 10-12 year olds the same way, this series just goes so over the top with it that it's hard to ignore. The fact that it does then have intermittent panty shots from a girl who looks 12, as well as apparently presenting the adult teacher as a legitimate romantic option only adds fuel to the fire.

This is one of those situations where I don't think any one problematic element of the series makes it a clear cut violation of the new guidelines, but it just piles so many of those elements on top of each other that it certainly seems to violate the spirit of the guidelines if not the letter.

I'll think on this some more throughout the day before I make a final decision, so arguments for or against cutting are still welcome.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 66 tdgoodrich 1, Mon, 7th May '12 7:04:42 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Any Poor Souls Who Trespass Against Us...
[up][up]Borderline clean-and lock worthy. I say cutlist to play it safe.

Damnit, Ninja'd.

edited 7th May '12 7:05:46 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 67 Pyrite, Mon, 7th May '12 7:50:03 AM from Right. Beneath. You. Relationship Status: Hiding
Until further notice
[up]Actually, intermediate measures such as "limit discussion to anime content only" can be proposed, so if you feel that the TV version can be cleaned and locked, feel free to say so.

edited 7th May '12 7:50:15 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.
 68 tdgoodrich 1, Mon, 7th May '12 7:55:50 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Any Poor Souls Who Trespass Against Us...
I'm aware, and I stand by my verdict. The younger girl deliberately flashes her panties at what's-his-face in the first ep. of the TV anime, so that would lead me to believe that other situations happen like that. That was the only pedo-baiting scene of what I saw, however. Combined with my presumption (which may or may not be accurate) and the rest of the borderline content pushes it just over the line in my book. (Eps. I viewed were 1, 4, 10 of TV anime; 2, 4 of OVA series FYI).

Edited for clarification/completeness. Side Note

edited 7th May '12 8:03:03 AM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 69 Meeble, Mon, 7th May '12 4:34:47 PM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
I've given it some thought, and I'm sticking with my decision that this is one that should be cut under the current guidelines. Even the TV series goes all out, all the time, with a laundry list of fetishes, nearly all involving people at or below 16 (or worse, adults imagining them being done to the aforementioned teens.)

Since that was the third devil head, I went ahead and resolved it to cut. Unless any of the other panel members would like to add something, this thread can be closed.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 70 Martello, Mon, 7th May '12 4:37:45 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Good vote. Looks like we're done here.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
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