Does Not Illustrate: Equivalent Exchange

If you ask me, this looks more like pulling the spear out of the ground. There is nothing indicating that the spear is made out of the content of the floor.

The trope is Equivalent Exchange.

While it's not entirely clear, it does demonstrate the trope, and should not be pulled.

I'm open for better suggestions, though.

Fixed the link to the page.

The pic is umm ok, I guess. I would really like to find something better.

I want to say we need to find a pic of a spell screen and the escalating mana cost for more powerful spells.

edited 24th Apr '12 2:14:04 AM by Raso

Keep Until Better Image Suggested

Fair enough.

Surely FMA has some better examples of the trope? Equivalent Exchange are practically its arc words.

To be fair, I think there is evidence that the spear was made from the material from the floor - look at the little crater it's coming out of, for instance.

Might be clearer if the spear is still mid-transmutation, I suppose?

I think it would have been better if the picture shows Edward (that's the kid's name, btw) making that sparks before creating the spear.

While it is an example in context, I don't see it being all that illustrative. To anyone not familiar with FMA, they could draw a number of different conclusions.

That transition might make it make more sense.

It could have easily been made by the spear landing on the ground. I have seen many many examples of that minor version of Crater Power or Ground-Shattering Landing.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:03:35 AM by Raso

Keep Until Better Image Suggested

Could we get a larger image that cuts out the two guys on either side? It would make it easier to see what's going on. It would also cut out the Funimation watermark.

edited 24th Apr '12 12:41:15 PM by petrie911

I'm in favor of adding a screenshot of the situation before Edward created the spear. That shows the exchange better.

I like that notion.

A more focused shot could be nice. It might also be good with a shot from the same scene showing how he's pulling the spear out of the floor, making sure it shows how the floor is being used for material.

The current one definatively does it though.

off the top of my head the best thing i can think of is a balanced chemical equation,e=mc^2 and such.

I'm afraid that that isn't a balanced chemical equation, to the best of my 15-year-old knowledge. It's about physics, and isn't counting numbers of atoms or something the way that you're thinking of. I think you mean something more along the lines of the equation for photosynthesis, or some more complicated formula:

6CO₂ + 6H₂O ⇨ C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6O₂

That's just text, so it isn't a good image.

Oh, and another Keep Until Better Image Suggested vote.

edited 25th May '12 1:48:09 PM by Telcontar

That is conservation of mass, and not exactly what the trope is describing.

I thought conservation of mass was the real world equivalent. (and conservation of energy. and conservation of mass and energy)

Both involve some equivalence between what you start with and what you get, but they are different in a deeper way than "one is real and one isn't" (though that seems important too).

Conservation of mass is chemistry, it says the reactants and the products have the same number and type of atoms, though like may become unlike (such as turning carbon dioxide and water into glucose and oxygen, in the photosynthesis example).

"Equivalent exchange" is alchemy, it is always like becomes like (such as turning the metal floor into a metal spear, in the FMA example).

edited 25th May '12 7:52:25 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Well, FMA takes pains to explain that the Law of Equivalent Exchange is in two parts: First is that you can only create matter of the same type (stone/metal to stone/metal, plant matter to plant matter, liquid to liquid). You can make gold from coal, and you can separate water into its components, but you can't turn a stone into a flower. Secondly, conservation of mass. You can't make more than what you started with. In one chapter, they explain that they can't create a bridge of rock from one end of a gorge to another: they'll either use up so much material that the cliffside will crumble, or the bridge will be far too thin to support their weight.

That's why the Philosopher's Stone is so desired; it lets an alchemist break those tenets and create matter from nothing. Or so it seems.

edited 1st Jun '12 1:10:49 PM by Enlong

If I didn't have some knowledge of FMA, I'd think someone threw a spear into the ground that was dodged and made a crater, and that Edward was pulling it out, not making it.

It needs to be clarified.

Ach. I'd suggest the equivalent scene from Brotherhood, but there's too much of a close-up.

...Same problem here.

Considering that manga page is a different scene that's covered in both anime, maybe we should see if either one does it better? <_<