Superheroes — why?

Exactly. Yeah, I was bummed out that most of my favorite characters were dead. I stopped reading Ultimate for a while^note didn't help the stuff immediately after was not great either. But "most" is not the same as "all". In the end, Spider-Man, Kitty Pryde and even a handful of the X-Men were still around. I kept reading Ultimate Spider-Man, which made me read Ultimate X-Men, after Kitty, Johnny and Bobby went there^note the three were supporting characters at Spider-Man at the time. And after a big crossover event, I started paying attention on the Ultimates and FF as well.

So, sure, I hate Loeb for ruining the Ultimate Universe. Decadent as it was, I still liked those characters. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy what latter writers have done. Specially as it means I can finally read a American super hero comic world in which big changes can actually happen without the certainty they will be resented a couple of years down the line.

That is the thing. They may have eliminated possibilities, but they also created new ones. Miles Morales, for example, would never shine if Peter was still alive. And we would never see Kitty trying to lead the X-Men if Xavier and Cyclops were still around. And the Ultimate line is very limited anyway. It is not like they could lived up to all its possibilities. So I am perfectly fine with what we got.

edited 28th May '14 1:23:03 PM by Heatth

@GAP: What happened in Ultimatum? Why, among many, many other things, the Blob ate the Wasp. That's what happened in Ultimatum.

Basically, Doctor Doom manipulated events so that the Scarlet Witch was assassinated, hoping to kick off a war between humans and mutants and then pick up the pieces to take control of the world. It backfired rather spectacularly when Magneto, enraged by the death of his daughter went all A God Am I, stole Mjolnir from Thor and reversed the Earth's magnetic poles which created huge natural disasters and killed a ton of people. Then the survivors teamed up and confronted Magneto, and he killed a bunch more of them. Jean Grey and Nick Fury showed him the error of his ways and he fell into a Villainous BSoD, then Cyclops killed him. After that, Ben Grimm went to Latveria and crushed Doctor Doom's skull to punish him for his role in the devastation. Just in case someone is actually curious.

I respect that, I guess. But, I'm not interested. Or at least (again) not enough that I'm willing to overlook how we got to this point.

Like I said, why should I invest myself in either when I was already invested in other characters who died dumb and horrific deaths? Why should I trust that this will end better? Even if Loeb is no longer writing, what happens the next time Marvel is desperate for sales and someone has a dumb idea?

And the whole Miles idea...it just rubs me the wrong way. You're right that he never would have gotten the chance if Peter was alive, but that just tells me something is immensely wrong with the fanbase. In fact, I've been thinking this for a while, ever since I ran into the Affirmative-Action Legacy trope. I'm miffed by the entire idea of the "Hey look! Someone who's not Peter being Spider-man!" selling point.

And don't forget Cyclops getting sniped right at the end. And Blob eating Wasp.

edited 28th May '14 3:47:49 PM by kkhohoho

Fair enough.

You "should"^note for a given value of 'should' because the characters and ideas are good, imho. But you are right you shouldn't trust Marvel won't do something dumb again down the line. In fact, something dumb is pretty much bound to happen to the endless nature of the comics and the constant rotation of writers. Sooner or latter some bad writer will come and do some shit again. It is just I am personally perfectly able to enjoy comics despite that. I never expected anything more from them. I go elsewhere for consistent quality.

I don't see what is so odd. I personally like change and new things. And I think the Ultimate line main advantage nowadays is that, unlike 616, it can actually promote such things, for better or worse.

But you are right it is a bit odd that a "Spider-Man who is not Peter Parker" is a selling point in itself. Personally, the fact Miles Morales is the Spider-Man is almost inconsequential^note the only advantage is that ensure the old supporting cast to show up. I would read a Miles Morales book written by Brian Bendis regardless of anything. If tomorrow Bendis announced a new teen super hero book he is writing, I would check it out. But I am not most people. And it seems that, for most people, the fact it is "Spider-Man" does make a difference.

It helps that Miles isn't just a clone of Peter. He's a unique character with unique strengths and unique flaws.

Ooops, wrong thread.

edited 6th Jun '14 8:35:16 AM by comicwriter