The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

There's a difference between fanservice, and nothing but fanservice.

Once upon a time, Playboy was more than porn for instance. It published interviews with sitting presidents and had real substance beyond the images. That's why it got to keep a page.

Eiken is nothing but fanservice.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

A slippery slope to what? Not having any pages on the wiki that are based entirely around fanservice?

And again-we have baked in limitations on what we'll cut. If it's distributed to a notOver 18 audience, then it gets an automatic pass.

Wait, Eiken doesn't fit that criteria does it?

The guidelines are just that- guidelines. They are not rules. The P5's decision is more important than the guidelines.

Well I've flagged Otomedius for reasons similar to the above mentioned. I'm surprised it got released in the US, let alone with an undeserving T rating. (more like AO in my opinion)

"Pancakes. Oh, I blew it." - Joel Hodgson Nobody better lay a Butterfinger on my 3DS!

In my opinion, it's not the fanservice that is problematic, it's the sexualization of the pre-teen character. The fact that such a character is featured in a heavy fanservice series pushes it dangerously into the "potential paedo fap material" category.

If all of the fanservice was centered on appropriately aged characters, I would say the work is fine even if fanservice was its only reason for existing.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

Pretty sure T for Teen means it's not up for review. There's no point in having a "If it meets certain ratings, it's not going to be reviewed" rule if we don't follow it, after all.

You need to give a very, very good reason for flagging something rated T. So, let's hear it.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

@Tomu: The slippery slope, as I see it, is that if we cut things that aren't porn, but just Fanservice, we may eventually start cutting anything with Fanservice on the grounds of being NSFG.

But the target demographic is boys around that age. We explicitly said stuff like that would not be cut.

edited 2nd May '12 1:26:23 PM by HamburgerTime

If they're going to accept any reasons for superseding a written rule, wouldn't it be best to have said reasons be written?

Though seeing as we've yet to have an example, I guess it makes sense that "We don't know what those reasons are yet." Unknown unknowns and all that jazz.

If the rule is "We cut anything that is nothing but fanservice" then you would have to then expand the rule to "we cut anything that has too much fanservice." The rule is what it is-we just don't know what the rule is!

Anyway, this is really like those gravure models. They're not explicitly porn, but all they do is pose sexily. It's the same general category-"Nothing but fanservice." Now, maybe you don't think we should prohibit that stuff. I don't take a yes/no position on that, but my understanding is that the P5 is basically operating on a "don't permit things that are nothing but fanservice" mentality. But you'd have to ask them.

edited 2nd May '12 1:28:09 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

It's got rather blatant Fanservice to the point where it was arguably the main selling point, with several of the main characters and enemies being overly sexualized. Every review I've seen on this game criticizes it for this very reason.

edited 2nd May '12 1:28:12 PM by KrazyKopter

"Pancakes. Oh, I blew it." - Joel Hodgson Nobody better lay a Butterfinger on my 3DS!

@Hamburger: It's not a NSFG google thing. The reason that pedo material is distinguished from "porn" in the new rules is that pedo-pandering is not wanted here regardless of whether the work technically counts as pornography or not. This is why Kodomo no Jikan is gone, despite not including explicit sex.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

Wait, Eiken is a game? I thought it was an anime about absurdly large breasted characters in situations that play to certain fetishes, like some ice cream slide that looks suspiciously like semen?

It looks like it remained cut because it contained nothing but fanservice, existed solely to titillate, and sexualized a 12-year-old.

As long as "nothing but" and "solely" remain significant criteria, I'm not worried about a slippery slope from Eiken.

edited 2nd May '12 1:29:25 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

That wasn't in their original mission statement, though, which was "don't promote porn and pedo-pandering."

But, as far as I can tell, Eiken is not for pedophiles. They might be a Periphery Demographic, but I don't think that should be grounds to cut something.

edited 2nd May '12 1:30:44 PM by HamburgerTime

Although I'm not sad in the least to see Eiken go, I don't really understand why it's considered pedo-pandering when the main selling point are the freaking huge chests the girls have, including the "pedo-pandering" character who I'm pretty sure was stated as having the biggest.

Come to think of it, the original Pretty Sammy had a part in the opening that was quite questionable...

Magical Project S did away with most of that though.

She's still twelve and drawn like a 12-year-old, other than the ridiculous breasts. One of the image repositories linked here in the defense of that work included her on her knees and elbows, ass shoved at the camera, for a crotch shot of her in her bathing suit that left nothing at all to the imagination. For a 12 year old.

edited 2nd May '12 1:34:05 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

It's because the characters with the huge boobs are like, 14 or 15. Overage women with huge boobs used for fanservice would be a totally different story. Or that's what I gleaned from the thread on Eiken.

EDIT: And apparently she's 12.

edited 2nd May '12 1:34:03 PM by LargoQuagmire

Eiken is cut. Eddie said it ain't coming back and locked the thread for it. I don't find it advisable to continue discussing it here.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Yes, that's gross, but I still think it's a slippery slope if pedophiles aren't the target demographic. As an example: a lot of /tv/ creepers went to see Kick Ass so they could fap to Chloe Moretz. Do we have to cut that now?

edited 2nd May '12 1:35:51 PM by HamburgerTime

Agreed. We are not going to rehash the same argument that occurred in the comment thread for the work, which was open to everyone. Hint hint.

Strawman. If the work is designed primarily to tittilate, then it will get reviewed.

edited 2nd May '12 1:36:44 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I'm not aware of anything that would automatically preclude someone who is attracted to twelve year olds from also being attracted to women who have large breasts, so I don't see how "but she has big boobs" is really a valid defense.

edit: Sorry Fighteer, mod-ninjad.

edited 2nd May '12 1:36:10 PM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

Noted. Dropping it.

edited 2nd May '12 1:36:52 PM by TheFoxsCloak

So will anyone consider looking over Otomedius? The T for Teen rating is bullshit in my opinion.

"Pancakes. Oh, I blew it." - Joel Hodgson Nobody better lay a Butterfinger on my 3DS!

EDIT: Dropped.

edited 2nd May '12 1:38:04 PM by HamburgerTime