Page Restoration Petitions

Er, Fast One: I think you put the word "just" in there twice.

What "PMs about P5 business"? No, really. I can't think of anything about P5 business that I would PM anyone on the panel that wouldn't violate the already established rule of not harassing/badgering/pressuring them over their decisions.

If you don't know what Eddie means, don't worry about it.

And that had what to do with page restoration petitions? I normally think saying TL;DR is stupid, but this time it's warranted.

Ahh, sorry, I thought this was the other thread, and that I was actually posting it there. I must have had a brainfart and wasn't paying as close attention as I thought I was. That was my error. I'll post it there now.

edited 4th May '12 5:08:52 AM by Gilgameshkun

To all: Apologies if I'm overstepping my boundaries, but I'd just like to give a brief summary of, and commentary on, the voting for Lotte no Omocha. (It's probably best to get this out of the way.)

Meeble's weighed in and voted against the anime version based on the first 4 episodes. Based on his reasoning, I can safely assume that he will probably find the remainder of the episodes equally objectionable, if not more. (Personally, I think we both saw the same content, it's just that I apparently have lower standards when it comes to acceptability.)

However, the other 4 members have based their opinions on either the first few chapters of the manga or the premise alone, and the remaining votes are split 2-2. For those who've seen only the first few chapters of the manga, I will say that the objectionable content in the manga will get worse (certainly not to KnJ levels, and generally played for humour, but there's no denying the presence of age-inappropriate innuendo and imagery).

As for those who object based on the premise, I must state again that the approach to the basic premise determines the difference in content between the anime and manga; while the manga gets more mileage from crude humour, the anime takes a more subdued approach. Those who have argued to keep the page have argued on the basis of the toned-down content of the anime compared to the manga - there was a proposal to rewrite the article based on the anime content alone, and not on the manga version. But as Meeble's decision shows, whether the anime has been toned down sufficiently to be considered "acceptable" is questionable - which, while subjective, remains valid.

Anyway, in potentially-debatable cases such as this, might I propose that the 5P focus their attention on the specific part of the work being supported (in this case, the anime version and not the manga), and review a larger proportion of the content to make a more informed judgement call? I doubt it'll change your minds about the series, but it's more for the sake of transparency.

I don't think you're overstepping your bounds at all, Pyrite. You weighed in on the subject thoughtfully, respectfully, and in the perfect thread to do so.

@Arha: You say "we have to judge them by the standards and morality of humans, not by their own standards. A work of fiction can make up any kind of culture it wants to, but in the end it's written by humans and for humans. "

I'd have to disagree - a fictional work is in effect creating its own context, its own world and therefore analysis of it should take account of that. It's written by and for humans,yes, but by creating fictional cultures it allows the exploration of things from a different perspective.

TL:DR (and before I waffle on too much) I'd say that in fiction content is important and any work must be looked at in its own context as well as others.

Is there a specific place we can see things that have been voted on or not? I saw a discussion that pretty much said Eiken was cut unanimously but I don't know if there's a list or something somewhere we can refer people to so they don't try to petition for things already decided on.

Here.

^^ That's not the point I was getting at, though. In the context of porn and whether or not something is appropriate it doesn't matter if Gor has a society where women are the sex slaves of men and that's all peachy keen in universe. So we either cut it or locked it, I forget which.

edited 4th May '12 8:46:16 AM by Arha

See P5 decisions and announcements for that, which is here.

Alternately, the first post in this thread has the voting results of works that have not yet been decided upon.

edited 4th May '12 8:46:12 AM by DarkConfidant

Also, for a list of all the things that have been decided on already, go here.

Here are the resolved issues. There is also a thread with final decisions in this forum.

You can petition for them to change their minds, but you must stop when you're told to. Eiken for instance is not coming back.

No, just link the announcement thread. That one shows ongoing votes and can be confusing.

Ninja'd!

edited 4th May '12 8:46:22 AM by lu127

Hope I'm not polluting the thread with a stupid question, but is there any way of tracking the fortunes of one's restoration petition? In other words, suppose that nothing one mentioned has made its way to Page Restoration Petitions. Is there a way of deducing its status—e.g.:

• No one's gotten to it yet, but probably will
• It's under consideration; hold yer water
• We made a post-removal decision, and said decision can be found [insert location here]
• We're politely (and maybe justifiably) pretending that you didn't just submit that idiotic petition

I've updated that page with decisions. The rest are still pending.

Wow, I didn't know so many things had been put on notice. Strike Witches, Bakemonogatari, High School Dx D, a lot more too. I'm going to petition for all of these at the very least. Bakemonogatari isn't really fanservicey, but I haven't finished that series yet. Strike Witches was licensed by Funimation for 16 and up I believe. Highschool Dx D is heavily fanservice but not pedophiliac.

I also want to know why Jesu Otaku was put on the list. I don't get that at all, especially considering she hates a lot of the stuff on the cut list.

edited 4th May '12 9:48:10 AM by BioYuGi

Some people are trolling the list.

I've never seen High School of the Dead but as I understand it, it's kind of like Tenjou Tenge with zombies? In that there's a lot of fanservice but it's still actually about zombies? Or something?

Need to watch it.

Highschool of the Dead is a fanservicey zombie show, I find it awesome because the zombies are freaking scary and it takes the situation seriously most of the time, but that's not on the list. Which makes sense since all the characters save one are in high school. Highschool Dx D is about a guy who gets a hot demon girl for a master.

edited 4th May '12 10:02:57 AM by BioYuGi

You could say that, I guess. (Read the manga before it went on hiatus. Craploads of fanservice, but there's a coherent and fairly-detailed plot involving the Zombie Apocalypse. No sex, don't think there's explicit depiction of nipples / genitalia, and the underaged girl doesn't get fanservice IIRC. So... probably wouldn't count.)

Also, this is not a Recommendations thread.

edited 4th May '12 10:02:35 AM by Pyrite

Highschool of the Dead is terrible and completely overwhelmed with fanservice, but it's not porn. Bakemonogatari and Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai have no place in this discussion, but both were listed.

By the way, Imma Youjo has already been cut. I'm not asking for it to be returned, I just have no idea what it is.

edited 4th May '12 10:03:05 AM by Arha

@arha: You see to be implying that when a work becomes categorized as porn that then becomes the only think that counts re: that work. Possibly I should say that content is important because aspects of a work that would count as porn if used in their normal context can be used in a non-porn manner in an altered content and hence determining if a work is porn or not would need to consider the context in which any specific 'porn' identified factors are used.

I'd say (with my flame resistant hat on, but it is a good example IMO) That lotte no omocha is a good example of this, the overall comedic structure of the work and its general tone render what would in other contexts be potentially offensive concepts non-offensive.

Quick disclaimer here: Now that i've mentioned a specific work I should say that while I have my own opinion on the current situation, what I'm doing is trying to show another opinion that I believe should be considered.

I don't think this conversation is going to lead anywhere useful, so I'm not going to continue it.