Content Policy Change

@1870: We have Family Friendly as the definition for family friendly here. All other definitions are footnotes with no policy relevance.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

People talking about cutting South Park are coming about as close to trolling the system as I care to deal with. I'm getting sick of this.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Bobby

I disagree. Their is no denying that major mistakes where made, specifically in regards to the early handling with the issue and the "nuke at first sight" policy that was taken instantly, rather then a calm and reasonable discussion over the subject. The general Tropers weren't consulted before action was taken, and so our trust feels betrayed. I am no longer convinced personally the Mods are as able as they originally seemed to handle this site with calm reason and logic.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

@Telcontar Just hold off. What is ambiguous in the first place can easily be argued if you get the right people. While, the works that are cutlisted are unambiguous, we should relax until everything is sorted out lest we cut out something that is ambiguous by accident.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:57:08 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode

@emeriin: I can't make you any promises, but this stuff needs to stop being cutlisted while we look at it.

@LMage: You are free to leave if you feel that way. I'm not sure what I could say to convince you otherwise, and I'm not particularly inclined to try at this point.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

BLAAAAH ninja'd

edited 17th Apr '12 12:59:13 PM by FinalStarman

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!

Nobody here thinks that South Park is paedoshit. Stop pretending that they might.

I'm not familiar with Ethan Fromme or Tropic Of Cancer. I would be highly surprised if anyone seriously thought Men At Arms needed to go.

No, I do not think Lolita is unsuitable for the wiki, but that is one page and was cut before we had any of this discussion. Given that this has also been stressed repeatedly throughout the thread, I'm not sure why it is being taken as representative.

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Because there was no discussion, is a part of the problem. I think many people feel angered that anything was cut before open discussion and debate was had, and as a result are wary that it will happen again.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:01:37 PM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

"Paedoshit" here means "depictions of paedophilia that make the the work something that needs to be nuked with antimatter from orbit", right?

Agree that this discussion here was a bit too much "start from behind-the-scenes" to be useful for a calm and relaxed response.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:02:07 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

@Septimus The issue isn't what Family Friendly means, but how family friendly we want to be. Stuff like Shin Megami Tensei and Highschool of the Dead are certainly not family friendly and on this site, the latter especially may get caught in the crosshairs of all this.

EDIT: My poor spelling

edited 17th Apr '12 1:03:18 PM by RogueLeader

Exactly why do you think, L Mage, that some poor cuts suddenly reflect on the moderation as a whole? We have no power to cut pages. Fast Eddie and two other people do. And seeing as Fast Eddie is the one who takes care of this site, he found it prudent to stand on the safe side of the matter. Now that he has put everything together, things will be restored as they should.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Not having any rules at all is just a huge loophole. Having clear but subjective rules is actually better for avoiding Loophole Abuse.

It's why the wiki as a whole operates under "don't be a dick" rather than "do whatever you want and if you piss off someone important, we'll be sure to let you know."

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

Why do you think there are 5 tropers now helping mods out?

The no discussion about Lolita has been stated to have been a mistake and is being corrected.

Dutch Lesbian

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm using "paedoshit" because I was sick of hearing "oh but technically it isn't child pornography because [utterly asinine pedantic nitpicking goes here]".

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You mean general guidelines. "Vague" never does a rule or guideline any good, IMO.

@Discar: ... You're kinda one of those who have accepted the position, man. Maybe you missed Eddie's memo about the council being fully formed a few pages ago?

@ccoa's proposed set of rules/guidelines: ... That's actually the closest to being perfect, IMO. Certainly more than I had hoped to get this soon into the discussion. This has my support!

You're shitting me.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:04:51 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

@L Mage That banner was done by FE, i.e. Admin Fiat. None of the mods did that, nor can they remove it. FE and Janitor are the only ones that can.

Ninja'd.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:10:43 PM by TheOneWhoTropes

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

@Bobby - It's possible that I coined the word, but I'm not sure. I'd like to believe I did.

Of course, I use the American spelling.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:04:39 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Well, I am using the def I gave so that we can stop talking about things like American crime shows that have pedophiles in them as villains.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

@lu

Repairing the consequences of the mistake don't change the fact that a mistake happened. Particularly if those in question refuse to acknowledge the mistake.

And even if the Mods don't have the power that Fast Eddie has, they still represent authority and rule on this site, and are looked to when something goes wrong. It seems to me that something should have been done by the Moderation to prevent this crises, even if it was something as easy as convincing FE to wait before he nuked and discuss the entire matter openly.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:07:59 PM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

Law And Order is not paedoshit, as should be completely obvious.

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@1890: I think that goes too far in the other direction.

Though, as I said, ccoa came up with subjective guidelines I would support. I wish people — including people who claim to agree with me — would stop pretending I'm asking for sharp lines to be drawn so I can point out that clearly objectionable works are outside them, when neither half of that is true.

People who nitpick over what is and is not child pornography, like people who nitpick over what is and is not pedophilia, have a better-than-chance probability of being pedos or apologists, IME.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:10:56 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

@L Mage At this point, I see the mods as scapegoats for a mistake Fast Eddie did.

Full Battle Mode

@1876: By the way, the Family Friendly policy needs a re-write, since the example states "a hentai example is ok if we are not explicit about it". I'll holler a mod.

Except the mistake was acknowledged

Dutch Lesbian