LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I wonder what the next group campaigning for social rights will be..

Computers.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Christians.

Just a joke guys.

It was an honor

Furries?

...kidding!

edited 10th Jul '12 6:09:15 PM by Morgikit

Unless we get into the age of transhumanism/super intelligent robots, or animals have a freakish gain in cognition skills, I think we're just going to retread the movements of the past.

I don't think we've ever had to have the same social revolution twice in the same society (at least, not in rapid succession). A people once free will not be easily denied freedom again.

My personal prediction: engineered humans, as opposed to naturals. We'll probably hear the first rumbles in the next few decades. It's already been established that a genetic code can be copyright, so a human grown from an original code could constitute "property".

Smile for me!

Well, transgender rights are still lagging behind the rest of the LGBT stuff.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I think that's because it's harder to relate to for a lot of people. Most people have had a romantic attraction to someone, and gay people just happen to like the same sex. However, most people have never been confused about their gender, or even thought about it before.

Ayup.

Gender congruity is like asognosia: you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

Smile for me!

Starship, I'm going to preface this by saying that you yourself are awesome. You have a strong moral compass that keeps you in check.

But there are people who call themselves Christians who when they hear you say "homosexuality is a sin" think that means you agree with them that "and sinners should be beaten to death." It's not the first part that's the issue. It's people who have blind faith without a moral compass and believe that they're doing God's work. People who believe that you're on their side because you're spreading their lines.

I don't object to you saying those things because I disapprove of your religion. I disprove of you saying those things because you saying them encourages violence in others.

Which is truly terrible as I can't see you committing any violence yourself.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Page Hop from 3 pages ago:

I'm not sure if I should be saying this, but it's been on my mind because of those points and it's just gonna keep aching at me if I don't get it out now or forget (although I'll probably also regret saying this for any number of reasons): Imagine if God did tell Starship or the likes of those who are, like, half-devout and half-good (since we don't know which he'd choose if the hypothetical were to happen) to kill gays and such and he goes through with it out of obedience when it was a test of some sort and he failed. That would kinda suck for all parties involved.

Again, I have no idea why I feel the need to say this, but I felt off not getting it out there, and I have no idea what consequences this post will bring.

Goes back to reading prev. pages.

edited 10th Jul '12 7:42:01 PM by Enzeru

Next group to campaign for civil rights will be the nudists.

Last group to ever receive basic rights will be my kind: Those who never shower and are averse to hygiene.

If you want any of my avatars, just Pm me I'd truly appreciate any avatar of a reptile sleeping in a Nice Hat Read Elmer Kelton books

I can see that happening. I've thought of something similar quite a few times.

I've wondered about this for a while, too, since coming to this thread, though more often along the lines of the first quote.

As in cosplayers/fans of furries, or anthropomorphs?

...I don't know?

All hail the Space Pope! Crocodylus Pontifex

edited 10th Jul '12 9:00:52 PM by Lawyerdude

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Muslims? I don't know, as a society America is slowly inching towards equality. I think the next social issue of the era or century or whatever might be trying to help fix Africa. *shrug* The next big thing doesn't have to be fixing ourselves, I guess.

Oooorrrr.... the Native Tribes finally getting justice. There's that.

Ya know, I would prefer it that people who identify themselves as Christians would actually read the book and think about what it says

People who use cellphones in theaters?

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Next social issue is how to exploit resources of moon without disturbing newly discovered moon people in ethical manners

If we gave special treatment to them, we'd have to give special treatment to people who give spoilers about new movies/tv episodes/etc that just came out.

Moon people aren't real people. They only exist in two dimensions.

edited 11th Jul '12 7:05:30 AM by Morgikit

Well Shima, I think I see a problem here; and this goes back to my conversation with Kay in which it appears I'd be willing to commit genocide for God if he so ordered it. Which, rightfully, would outrage and horrify people.

The thing is, people come to God for different reasons, as people come to many things for different reasons. Some people come to God, consciously or subconsciously, because they want a reason to attack people.

I came to God because I know God would never ask me to do anything as heinous as what Kay suggested or what other alleged (fake) Christians think God is asking them to do.

You say "What if God is asking you to attack innocent people because you don't agree with their sexual preferences?" But, for me, I feel God is saying "You must protect these people and their rights, even against those who claim to follow me. Especially against those who claim to follow me."

It comes back to what I've been saying repeatedly. This isn't a matter of 'some cool Christians and some asshole Christians'. It's a matter of, as Spooky points out, 'Christians that became Christians for convenience and have no clue as to what the actual orders are' and 'the true Christians who clearly know our mission and now that we are to reach a point where we're willing to die to stop violence against others."

Just like our namesake did.

edited 11th Jul '12 11:08:15 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

DG posted this in the Gay Rights and America thread, and I guess she doesn't post here all that often or she'd have posted it here. Or we just went so far off the beaten path with the Star Trek metaphors that she might have and we missed it, but here is a link relevant to this thread.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-09/news/sns-rt-us-usa-religion-gaymarriagebre86902u-20120709_1_gay-marriage-first-openly-gay-bishop-lifelong-covenant

Doesn't seem like a lot of us migrate to that thread, but it seems to have been dead for a while anyway.

As I said, I find this extremely interesting. The public reaction if this happens will be very telling.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

Starship, I think you're misunderstanding Shima's point.

You are part of the representation of Christians. What you say affects people's views of them. When you say it is a sin, you're saying it's wrong. The issue is... you can't even give us an actual reason why it's wrong either. Which puts us at a stalemate.

We understand you supports our rights. That is great, really. But we have no way of bringing you over to the acceptance side if we don't understand why you actually don't like homosexuality. A guy says so is not enough of a reason. It's important to question why it was written that way, otherwise is misses the point of the teachings. The words alone don't do it. It's always the meaning of the words that gives the teachings.

Good will towards mankind is easy to understand, as being kind to another breeds more kindness. It also is the right thing to do. Respect.

...So why would Homosexuality be condemned. Especially when God made us this way too. It doesn't add up.

Quest 64 thread

I think that this is overly simplistic. Christians who oppose gay rights are not necessarily assholes, and are not necessarily Christian out of convenience. I am really quite sure that many of them are far, far holier and more dedicated to Christianity than I am; and as I said, it's not like people who oppose civil gay marriage cackle at the thought of gay people being harassed, beaten and so on. These people are, I think, wrong; and their error is causing unnecessary suffering, and this is a big problem; but I don't think that it is our place to decide if they became Christians out of convenience or out of sincere devotion.

And as for not having a clue of what their orders are, can we really say that we have a clue? Of what little I can understand of what Christ commanded His followers to do, I cannot say that I follow more than an infinitesimal fraction; and I am less than convinced that I understand the full extent of His commands to begin with.

More in general, I would caution against talking about "true" Christians and "false" Christians. I don't think that it is up to us to decide something like that. For all I know, that homophobic person is far better than me under all points of view, except that — tragically — he is mistaken about that particular issue; he deserves friendship and help, not scorn and insult. I would still criticize his positions, of course; but I would not criticize him, for the simple reason that the state of his soul is beyond my knowledge and is, frankly, none of my business.

Christians don't have to be perfect. I should know, since I get to call myself Christian.

edited 11th Jul '12 1:19:18 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.