LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

I can say that we can't even begin to adress Religion's treatment of homosexuality without understanding how the religion actually works. The fact that the largest single denomination of Christianity (Roman Catholicism) does not believe in Biblical inerrency is important. It means that there is no core nessecary part of their faith to follow Leviticus to the letter. However the fact that it is a large heiarchial relgion means that the tenets of the faith can radically be different from the practices of parishioners and that changing it beliefs is by it's nature a slow process.

Dealing with Evangelical faiths is different because there are many sub-denominations all bound by the belief that the scripture is inerrant. Trying to reach out to them on a faith level would be difficult as you'd have to challenge the core of their faith, bringing them away from the belief that the Bible can be inerrant.

Neither of these things will work of course if there's no communication between the gay and Christian communities as the Christians would have absolutely no reason to change regardless. Stuff like "Catholics believe God gives them magic powers" is insulting to the vast majority of Catholics and gets them defensive distracting them from the point (as this little derail has shown.) So lumping together Christains, isn't a widespread problem and it's not a form of opression. But it makes people's jobs harder on both sides and really doesn't help things.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

I have to sit here and watch alleged Christians constantly make life harder for the rest of us. And now, I have New York sports fans adding to it.

You know, sometimes, just sometimes, I do think Guantanamo Bay should stay open, so we have a place to ship away these loser fucks.

Agreed.

edited 7th May '13 2:17:59 PM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

Things I don't care about anymore: People who think gay sex is a sin.

Things I do care about: People who find it acceptable to treat gay people/gay relationships differently than straight people/straight relationships (including people who think it's okay to put gay people in "corrective therapy" against their will.) The only real exception I have to that is that I think it's fine if a priest or a church won't marry a same-sex couple.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

It's not like their opinion means anything anyway.

*gasp* Fighteer is gay???

I assume you're talking here about the demonstrated higher rates of ST Ds, teen pregnancies, and the like?

You do realize that, in several parts of our great nation, that literally is sex education, and not a strawman or parody.

Man, it's almost like NYC isn't this great liberal bastion!

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Awww, did I miss the Penecostal debate?

I used to be one of those!

It was not fun. :(

RE: Abstinence only education: I don't really care if church schools this, but I don't want it in public schools. It's based on theology and it makes the kids who don't believe in it really unsafe when they do have sex.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

I think the biggest irony is that if people were less concerned about premarital sex there'd probably be less premarital sex.

Also is it still premarital if you never get married?

edited 7th May '13 3:06:00 PM by Elfive

...

...I don't know.

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

Hm. Good question. That means once you have sex you can never get married else you go to hell though.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Well geez!

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Abstinence only education: I Grew up in Richmond, Virginia, which is kinda where the north and south meet. So our sex ed was tailored to not offend anybody. It was basically "don't have sex till your somewhere staple and could handle a kid,but If you do use a condom, it's not huge deal." I'm not exactly sure how it worked out for every body else, and I'm not the best example because I was going through an orientation crisis at the time, but it seems like it might work on paper.

As to anti-gay Christians being a minority: I've traveled around a bit,and I've meet people on every side, my mom was a a Fundamentalist (and I'll admit, fights with her after coming out of the closet are part of the reason I became an atheist.) In college I met people who didn't care and people how where up in your face screaming that it was a sin(but then again everybody's believes go of the deep end in college, they may have mellowed out later.)and I know there where some pro-gay churches and I had a run-in with anti-gay violence(but I'm not sure if that group considered its self Christian or not and I'm sure real Christians don't.) in Norfolk too, so it was pretty diverse there. Now I live in Jackson, Wyoming and most people here are Christian and most don't really seem care and the one's that do mainly try to mind there own business.

edited 7th May '13 4:30:53 PM by lonesomepaire

Oh look, a thread explosion.

It really, really depends on your locality. For a good couple centuries, that brand of crazy was a minority pretty much everywhere except the Southeast US. And most of where it isn't anymore is where those denominations have heavily evangelized in recent years and are heavily mixed with contradictory local traditions (Africa).

Eh. For the most part you dip your fingers in holy water and make a sign of the cross, but it's not the old Jewish-style "wash your hands for everything". Our church recently had the holy water dish at the door vandalized, so for the moment there isn't one at all. We just kinda touch the mount where it's supposed to be screwed in and make the sign as a token gesture.

Erm...sorta? Ignoring the higher-ups kind of goes on more fronts than is convenient. Even though the official stance is to eschew literalism, we have a lot of cultural bleedover in the States with fundies. It doesn't seem to be the majority that goes for literalism, but it's more than you'd expect in a denomination that's pretty clearly laid out for a good bunch of centuries why that's a bad idea.

That, and you have a whole lot of country folks who are officially one denomination but shared a lot of limited resources with others. My grandmother for instance is Catholic, but her Bibles are all King James (Anglican), and a lot of her books are Baptist or even Adventist tracts.

This is an important thing to note. We get a whole lot of mixed messages when 23.75 hours of the day we're being told this◊, then get berated for not being more vocal about it in public the one time it benefits you.

We should be more vocal about this on your behalf because it happens to be the right thing to do, but understand why the cooler heads tend not to be. When you try to make everything so obsessively secular that even talking about your faith is taboo, the nice ones are the only ones that play along.

There's a certain amount of argument to be made on that at least. Power structures attract the worst of us, etc. Still, disorganized heads don't tend to do much useful either.

edited 7th May '13 5:22:13 PM by Pykrete

Is there a place in America that's "obsessively secular"?

I kind of like that joke. I think we've all known a person who took something a little too far. Doesn't even have to be religion. Maybe enviromentalism, or some fandom. Someone that made you want to say "That's great, but I don't care, so back off". That's hardly an attempt to remove religion from society altogether.

edited 7th May '13 7:51:08 PM by Morgikit

I would love to know this place. Then I would know where to run to.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

"Don't whip it out in public and wave it around" isn't the same thing as "Don't talk about it at all."

‽‽‽‽ ^These are interrobangs. Love them. Learn them. Use them.

Talking about one's penis is still not something done in polite company.

Outside of the appropriate context or specific people. You'd be surprised since it depends specifically the crowd.

But it is still different from whipping it out regardless.

, Yeah, either is a dick move.

Grab your dick(or somebody else's) and double click(or rub) for porn, porn, porn~

But seriously, it's best to know your audience before discussing sexual stuff.

Especially your religious company.

edited 8th May '13 12:17:09 PM by Matues

Does this count as Metaphorgotten?

Y'know, isn't using the male genitalia as a negative (don't be a dick, that's a dick move) sorta sexist?

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Nah, we use terms for female genitalia the same way, so it balances out.

edited 8th May '13 1:44:30 PM by Elfive