SFW-ness, the ad server, and Naughty Tentacles

So it seems like the currently most favored solution is to Lock and Block everything that could be considered mature, then have a designated team go over those things in detail so we could put them back up. This gets rid of them, but with a promise that they will come back as soon as they can.

Suggestions to change/modify this idea?

Edited.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:31:42 PM by Jimmmyman10

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

This isn't about ads anymore, it's FE's personal "no pedo" policy. Google doesn't enter into it.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Exactly.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Well if we're advocating "rulesets", rather than Lebrel's I'd rather use ccoa's.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

...Is the "get our ads back" part necessary? If we go with Google for a third time we'll be at some point bitten again for a third time. Who knows what for this time, perhaps because mentions or even implications or lampshade hangings of parental abuse...

Beyond that, a plan that focuses on a block and rewrite process is wonders in my book.

Supporting cocoa's proposed ruleset but asking for clarification on point numero three.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:32:27 PM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

well, from what I understand, we're currently losing money.

If this is fixed, then sure, screw google. If not...

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

Again, support ccoa's proposed rules.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Ccoa's list is good too, except again the Values Dissonance category works should not get the axe IMO.

Edit: Misread "fap fiction" for "fan fiction."

BTW, I agree 100% with her about torture. It's just as bad as pedophilia, and I don't want vivid descriptions of it, but it happens in many works. Including, again, tons of mythology and historical fiction.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:38:00 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Haha, the redirect I made serves its purpose.

Also backing ccoa's ruleset.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:34:01 PM by Autumncomet

One Piece blog Beyond the Lampshade

I also support ccoa's rules.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:35:09 PM by Nocturna

Agreeing with Cocoa's rules, as well. They seem to work.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.

Yeah, it's a bit open to loophole abuse, but then, nothing is perfect.

And I fully agree that torture is just as bad as rape. In fact it seems to me many forms of abuse are often ignored if they're not sexual in nature, but that's a societal discussion for another time and place...

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

I support lebrel's rules, if only because they are far more clear than ccoa's.

Another vote for ccoa's—specifically, with only getting rid of #1 (pedophile works intended to tantalize). We have few enough of those that I really think we can just have them as locked stubs, but whatever.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:36:34 PM by Discar

All I have to say is that major policy changes like this need to be announced to a site's users. I understand the fact that Eddie is trying to avoid needless bitching, but when people who haven't been paying attention notice the sudden Unwanted Page notifications on pages like Lolita, which is recognized as an important piece of literature, there will be backlash.

Ccoa didn't suggest any rules for tropes, only for works. I'm less opposed to cutting sex trope pages than to cutting works, but I don't want that carried too far either.

Indeed, some sex tropes can probably get their examples removed and then be locked, rather than cutting the pages entirely.

edited 11th Apr '12 6:41:02 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

About cocoa's Values Dissonance thing: a good point too - there were simply times where, we like it or not, things like rape were seen as A-OK. If anything, that helped us define ourselves as a culture where in the present they aren't.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

Yeah, I like ccoa's ruleset as well.

Reaction Image Repository

The only thing I have a problem with ccoa's proposal about is that people are going to disagree over what constitutes "fap fic". Some people think that anything that has on-screen sex is automatically porn. If we don't have clear guidelines for what constitutes "fap fic", it won't work.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

This post should at least clarify somewhat: [1]

As long as Fast Eddie is keeping that definition of "about pedophilia" then the number of things cut will be relatively small.

Classical Mythology and The Bible are less sexual than CSI:SVU though again, Values Dissonance shows up in the opinions about sex expressed in ancient works.

edited 11th Apr '12 7:13:08 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I agree with the above here. As long as the site-wide purge is limited to pedophilia and a very few explicit tropes (and not without proper discussion beforehand on the latter), I'll do what I can to support.

On the other hand, if this purge carries over to rape tropes, sexuality tropes, etc., then I am not fine with it. I absolutely condemn rape in the harshest way possible, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist (as detestable as that is) and that fictional works that include it as subject matter should be censored from the site.

The only questionable cut that I've seen is Lolita. A simple link to the Wikipedia article on the work should be sufficient for this, if site policy is that we won't discuss it.

Black Bird (which I have not read, but apparently is just a shoujo manga with a panel of explicit sex) is another. I think those two are it, but still. Just...as long as we go with ccoa's guidelines, I think we'll be fine.

Can we add Literature.Brave New World to the cutlist, please? (If there's a different thread for adding things to the pedocutlist, I'm unaware of it, please link me.) Like Lolita, it's an acclaimed work, but it contains children having sex and going off of the high pedophile population of TV Tropes, it's not worth keeping around.

At first I didn't realize I needed all this stuff...

Cutting Lolita is excessive considering it isn't supporting pedophilia in the slightest but a lot of stupid people miss the point of the novel and considering what kind of people there are on here sometimes, it may not be a bad thing to cut the page.

Just lock Lolita, zap all creepy entries and make it clear what the message of the novel is.

edited 11th Apr '12 7:33:46 PM by maybesomeone

Here's the thing, guys. This is, whether we like it or not, Eddie's decision. I personally don't think it's the best one, but maybe some of you do. Either way, it doesn't matter what we think; it's his site, and he can do what he wants with it. At the end of the day, whether or not a certain work has a trope page doesn't really matter, does it?

Does not having a trope page invalidate the work or make it "bad" somehow? I say it doesn't. Lolita is one of my favorite books of all time, but if it doesn't have a trope page, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it or get worked up about it, and neither should you guys. It not having a page isn't going to make me like it less, nor will it eliminate my ability to tell people why I think it's great and why I don't feel it should be lumped in with the creepy stuff.

Regardless, if Eddie wants to nuke half the website to eliminate the stuff he thinks is creepy, then I say let him. It's not like it's going to prevent you guys from liking any of it. It just means you won't be seeing those little blue words up and down the page showing how it relates to other media.

And that's okay.