Manga/Dragon Ball

I would rather like Goten & Trunks back. They both had a lot of potential for growth & I just hate seeing wasted potential as is the case with Gohan.

They've have been pretty shafted just look at how they look. A thing with DB all the way to DBZ is that the characters grew, just look at Gohan but not anymore. Goten is over 10 yet he still looks 5 & Trunks should look like his future self during the special.

I'm really saddened that all the talk of their potential during the Buu Saga all ended up going nowhere.

Actually he looks 13...

Then again, all their potential went to waste in the Buu saga as well, since all they did was get set up to fail in order to hype Gohan.

edited 16th Dec '17 10:33:38 AM by HandsomeRob

Yeah but we got a pretty fun fight out of it, didn't we? Now that I think about it I actually do like Gotenks, cocky attitude and all. I still think letting the human characters have a chance to shine was the right choice for this arc though.

edited 16th Dec '17 10:37:42 AM by Moth13

I'm torn on it. On the one hand, it's nice to see them get some action (though mostly Krillin and...for some reason Roshi, as Tien seems to be a massive afterthought), but on the other hand, the in universe power gap really does mean they have no business being there at all.

I will agree we got a very entertaining fight out of Gotenks vs Buu. I'd probably be more satisfied with a lot of fights for the worf characters if there were more like that (yes, they won't win, but they give a good account of themselves) but more often than not, we get them getting utterly trashed and the series making it clear they are nothing but fodder until Goku gets there.

I don't think Krillin's and Tien's "times to shine" were actually executed particularly well, and I would have liked seeing better executed stuff with them than all the time with Roshi, which also wasn't done particularly well.

Frankly, sense Goten and Trunks should be getting fleshed out, this seems like a perfect time to do it, as both individuals and even with Gotenks since fusion was clearly not off the table. From both an in-universe stand point, and out of universe fleshing out characters who need it more, I think they should take precedence over characters who mostly didn't even amount to anything in the tournament anyway.

edited 16th Dec '17 10:56:51 AM by LSBK

Fair enough.

I admit, I would like to see some evolution from Goten and Trunks. Maybe the next arc could finally do something with them.

I mean, I'd still keep Krillin in. Roshi and Tien are really the biggest offenders here, and there spots could have gone to Goten and Trunks.

Also, maybe leave Buu in instead of bringing back Frieza again, but I guess they plan on going somewhere with that so, eh.

edited 16th Dec '17 11:01:52 AM by LSBK

I don't care where they are going with it.

Frieza has been brought back multiple times now, and while seeing what he's capable of when he actually trains and learns from past mistakes has been interesting, seeing the series toss out a way for him to catch up when they've been pretty adamant about how once you are left behind, you stay there for everyone else is rather frustrating.

In addition, Buu being tossed under the bus three times (missing out on the first Frieza fight, missing out on the U6 fight, and now the Tournament of Power) has really got me steaming. I'm sick of them setting him up just to find an excuse to throw him out.

I feel like the reason Buu keeps getting dropped is that his absorption and candy beam are confirmed to work on opponents stronger than him so they could just have him OHKO everyone.

They should really stop teasing him though.

Also Good Buu doesn't actually have much to him character-wise beyond his friendship with Satan.

edited 16th Dec '17 11:09:29 AM by LordVatek

The Absorption can be avoided if you are fast enough or see it coming.

Same with the candy beam, which is pretty slow.

I do agree, both that those are the reasons he's not being used, and that it's annoying for them to keep teasing him.

Over thought it's funny how Goten and Trunks are so ignored now but good deal of the Buu Saga and DBZ movies are dedicated to them.

I mean, I like the roles Goten and Trunks have now. They work well as symbols of innocence that the adult characters have to protect. Goten's interactions with his dad and brother are funny and heartwarming, and Kid Trunks had a pretty great character arc in the Future Trunks arc with his interactions with Mai and Future Trunks. The part where he confronts Future Trunks and they have a long talk is fantastic. I like Goten and Trunks as non-combatants and now that I've experienced both options, I'd say that I prefer them as such.

Buu's role is to make me feel uncomfortable with the protagonists exploiting the mentally handicapped.

Well, that's a darkly cynical way to look at it.

Interesting way of looking at it...

That's not dark at all.

Ya know that makes sense.

Wouldn't Goku count as mentally handicapped as well, though?

Rewatching the series, the sad part is I think Goten and Trunks could probably carry an arc by themselves if the writers were so inclined, especially a (at least initially) more lighthearted one. Super's been giving Goten, for as little as they use him, a "naive but sensible" vibe that would work pretty well with Trunks "proactive 'leader' but foolish/impulsive" vibe into what would essentially be a twist on Straight Man and Wise Guy if given a decent plot. You could even argue that the Pilaf Gang (and Marron, maybe) gives them what is essentially a small supporting cast.

Though I think they would need to do a small time skip first.

But it seems like their characters are given the most attention when they're not together. Goten and Trunks get scenes with everybody but each other, it seems (and Goten really only exists to play Straight Man to his comparatively less sane relatives at this point), so whenever they're together they're more simply generally characterized as "crazy kids," and worse whenever anything serious goes down the writers treat them more as "those guys who turn into Gotenks" rather than being interested in developing them in general.

I'm guessing we'll get a Goten/Trunks/Marron breather episode or arc after the TOP, though. They did kind of blatantly set that up.

More use in stories is generally how characters with little characterization get more of it.

edited 16th Dec '17 12:49:23 PM by KnownUnknown

So I just got a look at the latest super chapter.

A nice look at what 17 was doing post Cell (he could not only see what was going on in there, but was revived right on the spot where the Cell games took place).

Gohan was actually the last character to be considered (before they found out they lost Buu, they said they only had 9 fighters). Hilariously enough, Bulma was actually considering Yamcha, but got cut off by the call from Satan about Buu and clearly forgot about it.

Notably, Roshi and Tien are just included in the group with no fanfare (or justification either). So in this case, I'd say the manga does an even worse job of explaining their presence.

So we're getting another ending song ("LAGRIMA" by ONEPIXCEL) in January's Vegeta episode. This is the third or fourth one for this arc, right?

Here are the model sheets for anime Jiren◊ and UI Goku◊ designed by Yamamuro. Hilariously, he notes to the animators: "Be careful not to make Jiren too fat".

FighterZ's song and background music pack◊.

edited 16th Dec '17 3:10:05 PM by XMenMutant22

Third.