Manga/Dragon Ball

GT ate my baby.

Was a weird statement...quality can't be inspired.

That thumbnail is...terrible.

edited 30th Sep '16 6:52:56 PM by randomness4

GT poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, delivered a plague unto our houses, killed my mother, ran over my dog, shot John F. Kennedy, infected the world with Ebola, swine flu, and SARS, demoted Pluto from planetary status, cancelled Firefly, made MTV stop airing music videos, and directed Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Oh my GOD this is LITERALLY the most, SINGLE MOST heinous thing!

I say we tip something over!

Riot!!!! POLITICAL STATEMENT!!!!

I just pushed over an empty apple juice bottle, is that enough?

I liked Evolution too...

-tips over the Eiffel Tower-

SHUNNED!!!!!!

edited 30th Sep '16 6:56:38 PM by AdricDePsycho

Why?

Why are you asking "why"...

Well geez, even I'm not that evil.

edited 30th Sep '16 6:59:16 PM by LordVatek

Because I'm honestly curious how someone can like that movie.

Well...it could be worse.

He could like 50 Shades of Grey.

Because it was a good movie for what it was; just wasn't a good Dragon Ball movie. Though, considering every Dragon Ball movie was just a repeat of another saga/villain, Evolution really isn't that different from the Toei movies.

I am going to back up Jonnas on this one. It feels like pure padding. Goku's transformation against Cooler less so, because they play it out like his first transformation against Freeza where it was a big deal. But stuff like Super 13 it's just obnoxious, it doesn't make any sense, and it seems like it's there because the staff can't write a fight without having the characters pull an ace out when it's time for them to win. It's either really lazy writing, or just plain incompetent.

And it's super obvious because that's simply not how fights are written in the original manga. What the writers of movies, filler etc seem to miss is that while there are plenty of I Am Not Left-Handed moments in the original series, those moments actually have reasons behind them. Look at Goku after he obtains Super Saiyan - he uses it for every serious fight, going Super Saiyan right off the bat unless it's an opponent he knows is a trivial opponent.

What happens in the movies and filler, where they just fight a losing battle in their base forms until they decide to transform, simply doesn't happen in the manga. It's an obvious disconnect, it's jarring, and there is no logical reason for them to behave that way.

As for Goku continuing to fuck around - that's something that only really started with Super. Even in RF, he only fought Freeza in base because he was already stronger without transforming. Super is the first thing with Toriyama's name attached that shows them actually struggling but giving no reason whatsoever why they won't just power up.

I feel this is primarily a product of mimicking the original work without truly understanding the elements they are copying. Like, plots seem to be written like "and then the villain will power up, because that's something that would happen, right?" often without a reason why the villain has this power-up, or why he powers up there, what prevented him from doing it earlier, etc. It doesn't feel organic at all.

And Rule of Drama my foot, if that were true it means the writers can't come up for a way for the characters to win challenging fights unless they're only challenging because the character wasn't going all out. It shows, they're generally pretty poor at writing fights where a character actually starts going all out and still faces difficulty.

That's not the real reason for it. Toei consistently have not portrayed Super Saiyan to be as big a power-up as it is. In fact, GT outright implies/states the opposite, with base Goku being described as roughly half his maximum power (instead of the 1/400th it should be) and regular Oozaru later being strong enough to restrain a Super Saiyan 4.

As Jonnas also pointed out, the Kienzan/weapons/special attacks aren't the same thing as regular punches. Toriyama's work is fairly consistent about how if you're much stronger than a character, they can outright no-sell your regular attacks. Toei will animated that scene, then have the exact same type of attack look like a serious blow. They don't have any consistency.

A good example of this, is movie 10. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan bunches LSS Broly square in the face, and he doesn't flinch. Base Gohan is able to smack LSS Broly around. Also in that movie, Broly launches an attack at Gohan who is powerless to stop it. When he then moves the very same blast at Videl and the boys, Gohan deflects it with his bare hands.

They either don't know or don't care. And it's not the same thing as the debatable situations in the original series - Toei's works simply lack consistency, either with the manga's logic or their own.

This, however, is that part where I have to disagree with you Jonnas. Mostly because I believe it's a very easily fixed flaw, and as said earlier is either a product of lazy or incompetent writing that allows these scenes to happen. They're unnecessary, and they take me right out of it by knowing that they happened for no real reason.

You keep saying that, but I'm sorry to say it doesn't actually line up with your actions.

Again, I am not being hyperbolic when saying that you are very quick to call a subjective interpretation "fact".

You already said you're right 95% of the time, you only admit you're wrong when YOU see it that way, which is another subjective interpretation. And as evidenced, you don't think you're wrong very often, if at all.

It is also evidently clear that you have tried to silence negative opinions.

This is getting really silly, because it's just turning into you levying the same accusations to me with nothing to back me up, and accusing me of behaviour I - and more importantly, others - have already accused you of.

And let's not even get started in how much of that paragraph of yours is subjective itself, but you certainly aren't acting like that.

I have repeatedly stated that I do not believe my opinions are fact, and I must stress that most of what we talk about is subjective. Something you have not admitted to.

As for being a bad conversationalist and rude rebater, and I am reasonably sure you have the biggest reputation for that, but of course you ignore it.

I mean, Great Ape Vegeta was able to restrain Super Saiyan 4 Goku because Goku wasn't even trying to escape; he knew that Vegeta was just fooling around because he's seen Vegeta in control of his ape form in the past, so he saw no point in getting out.

That's one interpretation.

It really runs counter to what we actually see on screen, Goku seems surprised the entire time.

Also note that the fact that Vegeta can control his ape form is never referenced in GT, and is not brought up as the reason Vegeta can control himself their. Vegeta implies that he regained control over the ape through force of will, not that he always had control because of the training he had done.

Baby also backs this up, while controlling Vegeta's body, he says Vegeta's mind is raging like an Oozaru would but Baby is in control so it doesn't matter.

And Goku doesn't like sound he knows Vegeta is fooling around when he starts screaming out in pain from being crushed.

edited 30th Sep '16 7:11:02 PM by Saiga

Excellent response in my opinion.

edited 30th Sep '16 7:09:55 PM by VeryMelon

Dude, drop it. You're only prolonging this.

I am aware of how it can sound, but the difference is that I am trying to reference actual examples of behavior of yours. I could go the extra mile and dig up old posts of yours to substantiate it, if you want.

We can accuse each other of the same behaviour without both of us being equally right/wrong about it.

Also, if you have that response to seeing my draw those parallels, have you still not seen how that could apply to you?

edited 30th Sep '16 7:13:01 PM by Saiga

Let's all take a chill pill.