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Not Thriving (alt titles crowner 3/10/12): The Old Con get usage counts

 1 Spark 9, Wed, 7th Mar '12 4:39:45 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
The Old Con has 40 wicks, 5 inbounds, so it's clearly not thriving.

Here's the problem: the word "con" has multiple meanings. Guess The Trope: does it refer to a confidence trick, convict, convention, the TV series "Con", or an abbreviation for Chronicles of Narnia? And it has a couple dozen other meanings.

So yeah, I came across this trope expecting it to be the first in that list (or possibly the third) and was surprised to learn it's the second. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and with five inbounds in over a year, there's clearly something wrong here.

Suggest a rename for clarity. Simply expanding the abbreviated "con" would help a lot.

edited 7th Mar '12 5:12:26 PM by Spark9

Special trousers. Very heroic.
A lil' bentô ?
Before reading the article, I thought it was about an old con artist. The name definitely isn't clear enough, Old Convict should do the trick IMO.
"Your kindness gives me the presentiment I can be reborn. Now, I want to believe at least in you." - Kaori Yae
[up]Seconded.
 
 4 lebrel, Wed, 7th Mar '12 5:18:39 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
I would have guessed "confidence trick". Old Convict is better.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 5 Madrugada, Wed, 7th Mar '12 5:59:06 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I guessed that it was the second, but that's more because to me, the only two of the options that could reasonably be paired with "old" are 'con game' and 'convict'. The "old convention" doesn't make any sense, I never heard of the series, and if it was an abbreviation for Chronicles of Narnia, I'd expect it to be CoN, and anyway, that doesn't make sense either.

However, The Old Convict is clearer and no less concise, so I support changing it to that.

edited 7th Mar '12 5:59:35 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 7 Deboss, Wed, 7th Mar '12 6:40:55 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Switch to The Old Convict.
The Old Convict is one word longer, but it has a nicer ring to it. Old Convict might be more concise, but I cannot help but think some might mistake it for People Sit on Chairs. I am a bit partial to The Old Convict in full, but I am not sure which other reasons in either direction I might have missed...

edited 7th Mar '12 6:57:47 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
I think "The Old Convict" gets the idea across better than "Old Convict", which definitely sounds like a People Sit on Chairs type thing. It's not just a convict that happens to be old, it's a certain type of character.

 10 shimaspawn, Wed, 7th Mar '12 7:18:45 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
The Old Convict is better and more obviously a character type.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Perhaps The Old Prisoner might be a good alternative?
"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
Single proposition crowner to start with.
 
 13 ccoa, Thu, 8th Mar '12 2:03:59 PM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Crowner gingerly attached to thread.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 14 lebrel, Sat, 10th Mar '12 4:40:32 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Bump. Unanimous so far.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 15 shimaspawn, Sat, 10th Mar '12 4:42:39 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Calling crowner.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 16 lebrel, Sat, 10th Mar '12 4:46:44 PM from Basement, Ivory Tower
Tsundere pet.
Spiffy new crowner.
Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.
 17 Madrugada, Sat, 10th Mar '12 4:51:21 PM Relationship Status: In season
With Mod Hat On
Crowners swapped.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 18 feotakahari, Sat, 10th Mar '12 9:26:30 PM from Looking out at the city
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
As a side note, is there any sort of rule about "The" in trope names? I think Old Convict works better than The Old Convict if there's ever a case where there's more than one Old Convict in a story—that way, we can refer to them as "Old Convicts" with the {{}} markup and the S appended to the end, rather than with the [[]] markup.

edited 10th Mar '12 9:26:54 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
 19 Madrugada, Sat, 10th Mar '12 9:54:45 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Not a rule, but many character archetype tropes include "The", especially if it's a word or phrase that can be used without meaning the archetype.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I think the definite article needs to stay. This a trope about a particular type of old convict, not any convict who happens to be old.
 
The convict name, for better or for worse, implies that the character was locked up for a crime, or at least found guilty of one by a court of law. This would imply that characters that were locked up for other reasons (ie. Chatter Telephone from Toy Story 3, locked up by Lotso because he could always use more toys) technically do not count.

edited 11th Mar '12 7:14:03 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
 22 Madrugada, Sun, 11th Mar '12 9:21:32 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
^ That type of exception to the Convict-in-prison situation is vanishingly rare. Using a more ambiguous name like "The Old Prisoner" because of it will just lead to misuse. "Prisoner" is used to mean "convict" or prison inmate" yes, but it is also used to mean "a person who is held in any sort of captivity."

edited 11th Mar '12 9:24:18 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 23 shimaspawn, Sun, 11th Mar '12 9:23:02 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
And characters that are locked up are normally convicted even if unfairly.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
[up]Depends if the country they're in has any policy of accusing people of crimes. In some places you can just get arrested and held indefinitely without any accusation, let alone conviction. Other places may hold you for years before your trial comes around.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Tropes are flexible. I think it can still encompass those who have been imprisoned for other reasons even if it has the word Convict in the title. The majority of examples are thos who have been imprisoned (rightly or wrongly) for a crime.
 

Alternative Titles: The Old Con
10th Mar '12 4:44:10 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
The Old Con is not sufficiently indicative. The previous crowner showed consensus for rename.
Total posts: 29
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