The importance of physical attractiveness

I'm not exactly covering new ground by talking about this, but I thought it'd be an interesting discussion regardless.

It's a pretty safe assumption that Western society and its dating culture puts a huge emphasis on physical attractiveness. Of course there's all the media images showing the ideals of beauty and look like this to get a mate and yadda yadda yadda, but let's dial back for a moment. Like, say, instead of looking at the case of people trying to gussy themselves up in order to find someone to fornicate with, let's look at this case of two of my suitemates talking about girls in their classes. One of them mentioned sitting near two fat girls in one of his classes, and the two of them seemed to be utterly revolted by the very idea of even associating with a fat girl.

It's things like that that convince me further that we have a very toxic idea in our heads when it comes to our interpersonal relationships. Why exactly would one not want to talk to a fat girl? Because she's fat? How is that a reason—how does fatness not mean that someone would be a good person to get to know or even date? Another person's weight is not your problem, it's theirs. *

There's plenty of other examples I could think of (just not at the moment) of such toxic thinking that appears to be inherent, if not indoctrinated, in people that I cannot seem to fathom.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

Talking? Not an issue.

Now, in order to consider a romantic relationship with a person, I would have to perceive them as physically attractive to some degree;*

but as for friendships and the like, attractiveness is not relevant.

The fault is not within Western society or dating culture this time, I think. The person who you mention, who acted disgusted at the idea of sitting close to fat girls, behaved like a jerk. That's all.

edited 1st Mar '12 9:04:18 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

The old (as in medieval era or earlier) idea of someone's appearance being indicative of their character probably has something to do with it.

It also probably has to do with the way that only attractive people get on TV or receive any attention in our culture. Focusing solely on the super attractive as we do leads to normally or fairly attractive people looking plain, plain people looking ugly, and actually ugly (or people with a feature that isn't considered attractive by the social mainstream, such as being fat) hideous.

Combine again with the idea of looks corresponding to character, (how many nice guy actors with beady eyes have been typecast as bad guys based just on that? How many studies are there about how attractive people have easier times finding jobs? How often do you find yourself drawing conclusions about people based on their appearance, such as tending to assume that someone with glasses is a geek or automatically smarter because of them) and you have the "unattractiveness" of someone magnified in the eyes of the person looking at them, and someone that ugly must have something wrong with them.

That's one possible idea anyway. The person saying it is just an asshole thing is equally valid, although the older I get and the more I see how widespread such attitudes are, the more I think cultural assumptions are a contributing factor.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |

Nothing wrong in general with talking to or dating fat girls.

On the other hand, there is something wrong with dating someone you aren't attracted to. Part of the fun of dating is the chemistry and excitement that comes from knowing that someone you find attractive is also interested in you. It's hardly the whole thing, but since romantic relationships (contrasted with strictly friendship) are going to involve physicality, not being attracted to your partner would ruin it. If someone is attracted to a fat person, then dating them would be great. However, I think it's fair to say that most people in the west are not.

That being said, I think there is one part where "dating culture" does play a large role in the whole "associating with/dating fat girls" question. For guys at least, showing signs of desperation can be a death knell for any aspirations you have with a young lady. So say Bob really likes Alice. He starts talking a lot with Carol, who is overweight. If Alice thinks Bob is trying to get with Carol, Alice might conclude (rightly or wrongly) that he is trying to get with Carol because he's desperate (most likely because he can't get an attractive girl). Alice determines that Bob is not a good dating partner, because if other attractive girls don't want him, why should she? Is it just desperate, unattractive girls that are willing to put up with Bob's shortcomings?

Knowing this, Bob may choose not to associate with Carol at all, wanting to avoid the missed opportunity with Alice.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

Can I just jump in and say that fat people, and women in particular, are operating on a slightly different level from someone who is, merely, a 'Plain Jane'. Vericat is right, you can't feel passion for somebody you aren't marginally attracted to.

But to admit or imply attraction to a woman who's overweight is, by proxy, a backhanded compliment. (i.e. Kirstie Alley complaining she hadn't gotten any in ten years because she refused to have fat sex) From my own experience, if you say you love a chubby chick just the way they are (that old clinker), they like it, but saying you like them for their shape is a really dubious business.*

I'm a skeptical squirrel

I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea to say you like any woman for their shape, not only because it sounds really shallow, but also because as women get older their shape tends to change for the worse. Saying you like a woman for their shape implies that you're going to leave her as soon as it changes in any way.

Yes, women who have nothing but their body shape are going to get dumped in the long run. That's why everyone needs to care about their personality too, even people who look like supermodels.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

I just separate "love" into "like" and "want to fuck". I like plenty of people because of who they are as people, and their looks don't really matter. I want to fuck people because I find them pretty. A girl once asked me if I would still love her if she got ugly. I told her yes, of course I would...but we'd probably do our fucking with the lights off and it wouldn't happen as often. She accepted that, but I don't recommend using it; not everybody likes that level of honesty.

But as to attractiveness, everybody gets ugly eventually, including you. Basing your relationships on physical appearance is a good way to be really sad once you pass 35.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Very important.

If you are a guy, your chances of getting a person you like to respond to you is greater if you are more physically attractive. The idea of "attracted to a person because of their brain"...just cannot really be applied practically.

I am not saying you need a six pack and huge biceps, I am saying you need to be at least presentable and reasonably thin.

Sign on for this After The End Fantasy RP.

I dunno. There are guys and girls called chubby chasers for a reason. They find that physically attractive. But seriously, if all you have going for you is physical attractiveness (whatever you consider that to be) you're pretty much just going to end up alone and sad. Most people, when looking for love, are looking for something to keep them interested beyond the first impression of "damn, that girl/guy is fucking hot."

But yeah, we're inundated with the Hollywood idea of what's attractive, but what people find to be so is much more varied than that. Hell, some folks are turned on by someone being able to rattle off mathematical equations from memory, so for them physical appearance might not matter as much as it would for someone who's a professional model. What you find attractive, as well as how important physical looks are to you at all, varies too much for any measure to be absolute.

edited 1st Mar '12 6:27:16 PM by AceofSpades

The only reason I don't generally enjoy socializing with chubby folk is the "I'm so fat" monologue one ends up hearing at some point.

edited 1st Mar '12 6:29:35 PM by sveni

Am I going to be considered extremely creepy by saying that the dealbreaker for associating with people for me is scent, and then probably voice?

edited 1st Mar '12 6:45:48 PM by ohsointocats

Not really. A bad smell can indicate bad hygiene and the like.

Are we talking cologne, or "actually uses shampoo"?

I'm a skeptical squirrel

No? Isn't scent one of the primary factors how people choose their mate(s)? Well, except me, 'cause I have extremely poor sense of smell.

edited 1st Mar '12 6:55:19 PM by sveni

I mean any smell that one can smell without climbing on the person and sniffing them.

I'd like to add for me, physical attractiveness is almost always a threshold question. I either am or am not attracted to someone's looks. If I am not, that person and I will not be romantically involved. If I am, then the possibility exists.

That isn't to say that I don't find some girls much more attractive than others. It's just that once the threshold of being attractive is met, then other qualities are going to be FAR more important.

For instance, say there are three girls that are interested in me. Girl 1 falls below my threshold, Girl 2 is slightly above it, and Girl 3 is drop dead gorgeous. Now take non-physical traits into account: Girl 1 is nice all-around and funny; Girl 2 is a gamer (like me) and sarcastic; Girl 3 is nice enough but really into sports (I'm not) and doesn't like drinking.

Girl 2 is the easy pick. Even if Girl 3 is five times prettier than Girl 2 is, every unit of pretty above the threshold is valued much less than any other trait. Girl 1, on the other hand, does not meet the threshold, so she could have every non-physical quality of Girl 2 and more, but would be a friend, not a romantic partner.

Much to my BFF's wife's chagrin, No Pants 2013 became No Pants 2010's at his house.

x 8: That is a rather rare fetish, not really all that common, most likely not that applicable.

While scent and voice, and other factors are important deal sealers, and in fact may well be more so, if we go by what popular culture and the mainstream groups at large consider, then right now, physical attractiveness is big in main stream, but not so much in terms of groups such as us.

edited 1st Mar '12 8:32:11 PM by NickTheSwing

Sign on for this After The End Fantasy RP.

Speaking for myself, when it comes to intimate partners I want one who smells good. Granted, that isn't likely to be the first thing I notice (given that I'm not in the habit of making like a dog and sniffing crotches or whatnot), but it's eventually important.

I've also gotten a lot of mileage in the scoring game out of smelling good and wearing clothes that are soft and touchable, so make of that what what you will.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I don't know. If someone has an intense smell — I can smell them without sniffing — that's usually the first thing I notice. Then again, fortunately most people do not have very intense smells, otherwise I would be even more antisocial than I am already.

[buys a year's worth of old spice and flannel]

I'm a skeptical squirrel

@johnnny: try Drakkar and silk.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Ooooh silk.

Chicks dig silk.

I don't think I've ever felt (let alone wore) silk.

And now I feel sad.

...*is weighing between which is more important, the fact that I hate the smell of any and all cologne or my desire to attract ze ladies*

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