AZ Rant: Anime Is Dying?!

I get the feeling that some people here may not care. If you don't, please move along :P This is for those that do. It's fairly simplistic, but does a good job dispelling general ignorance; although this community is generally more aware and discerning than most. In any case, spread the word and just let people know what their options are regarding their ability to support the industry. Let them make their own decisions.

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Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.

Eh...I figured this community might have gotten the point a while ago. Just trying to enlighten the few that might not have.

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I'm watching the video and it's actually really informative and probably the best summation of the issue I've seen, but...

God, I'm sick of this discussion. I'm really, really sick of it.

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.

The discussion is pointless unless someone involved (business-wise) with the industry does something as a result of the discussion.

That hasn't happened.

Yeah, I thought it was a nice, digestable, sharable encapsulation. It's not really meant to incite the same, tired argument; like I mentioned, it's more an ignorance cure (not that TV Tropes needs it), and a call to action or continued inaction, depending on what your stance is.

My bad for opening old wounds. I know how painful they can be.

edited 22nd Feb '12 6:05:22 PM by IllConstruct

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You know what? I actually like this guy. I think I'll watch more of his videos. He reminds me of UltimateKHFFan, only not a fucking dweeby douchebag - but maybe that's just the accent.

edited 22nd Feb '12 6:05:28 PM by Sporkaganza

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.

Gigguk used to do Zero Punctuation style reviews of anime, but has since moved to to video reviews and rants similar to these.

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Well, if we are talking about the video, I like how it paints a stark picture of how things are but isn't too whiny or abrasive. A good way to get people to listen to you is not to turn them off too much with what you are saying, and this guy doesn't seem to be trying to tick anyone off.

And regarding the state of the anime industry... Although I don't know the full extent of the situation, I really get the feeling that the situation is bad. Like what we have right now is the golden age and we are moving away from it.

I can't really be specific without sounding whiny or biased against certain things, but I regret the loss of diversity in what we would be watching if current market forces alone dictated the best thing to made (where would the art be then?).

I have mentioned before that I'm amazed that the anime industry can exist the way it is at the moment at all.

But hey, things could be cyclical. All it would take is one breakout hit to smash the animation age ghetto and see some of the great things about anime in all other media, and maybe even some of the great things about other media in anime.

Forgive me Spork, I don't think I've seen a thread like this in quite a while, so I just posted what I thought.

"Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes."

A decent video. Some of the examples of anime that were supported by western fans, makes me soften my previous statement that the western publishing industry is entirely useless.

Though these are still mostly ad-hoc cases, where a specific show ended up being surprisingly successful, rather than a steady business model, that consistently contributed to anime production. More like Periphery Demographic freak accidents, similar to My Little Pony's strange success with adult fans, rather than a sign that the artists could safely make a living from that demographic.

Normally, even in the western publishing industry's golden age, they could only pick from already finished series, and only support their own translation's costs. Now, they aren't going bankrupt because they can't support anime production, (they couldn't do that until now either), they are going bankrupt because now they can't even make enough money to support their own localization infrastructure.

So, for these few freak accidents where these companies did manage to support the japanese studios, I'm willing to say that their existence was an overall good thing, but I still believe that their failure won't have any measurable effect either on Japanese anime production, or on our anime viewing experience (assuming that you are ok with subs).

Of course, the ending point is also entirely true. Whatever happens to the western companies themselves, and regardless of whether they are important to us, every anime fan should support the Japanese anime industry as much as they can, in any way they can.

On the other hand, there were some weird things that I disagree with:

Note, that here, he used one of those tricky graphs, where the starting point of the Y axis is not zero, so a drop from 179.120 to 164.830 looks like the revenues were halved.

The very graph that he uses, shows that actually that is not a significantly big fluctuation, compared to how it got up to that place in the previous 2 years to begin with. The japanese anime industry is not dying any more than any other industry that drops a few percent during a recession.

I couldn't figure out if we are still in the valley of the fluctuation now in 2012, but if we are, it must have been entirely covered up with minor expense cuttings, because more or less the same amount of anime is being made as 5-6 years ago.

Now, that's just xenophobic. It's one thing to feel glad about this or that individual good anime that Japan missed, but it happened to be supported by western fans, but this line is pretty much implying that Japanese fans are less trustworthy about their choice of anime than their western counterparts, that only American fans are logically considering a work's quality, while the Japanese are all easily manipulated consumer-sheep. Without such a racially defined divide, it should be obvious that there are also some American otaku who are proudly embracing their stereotypes along with their hug pillows, while many from the Japanese audience still end up buying the Blu-rays of shows that analitical western reviewers also praised the most.

First of all, I'm not even sure that many of those were created with the western audience in mind. Samurai Champloo is the only one where it is obvious. Other than that, the only thing connecting the rest of these is that they all feature manliness and gun violence. Is that supposed to be all the "american values" that we inspired in anime?

And there is nothing wrong with that. Appeal to Worse Problems is a fallacy for a reason. Just because things could be worse, doesn't mean that no one should be allowed to complain about things that are problems to them.

Ok, I don't want to turn this into one of those translation theory debates on fidelity vs. transparency, but I still quoted this, because I think it's a pretty good representation of where the author is coming from. I mean, the attitude of caring more about hypothetical people "outside the community" understanding it, than the community itself understanding it.

I've noticed before, that a bunch of opinions about anime, such as worshipping 1980's series with manliness and guns, an irrational hatred of "weeaboo words", a hatred of moe (defined as "anything with teenage girls in it"), the stereotyping of "The Japanese Otaku", are all mostly coming from the same kind of people, with an overarching attitude of trying to equate anime with mature animation, and perceive all of it's japanese-ness as just a hindrance against anime "living up to it's potential", and being a mainstream, universal medium.

edited 23rd Feb '12 7:21:17 AM by Ever9

Good points. However, if the Western market were to completely disappear, I still believe there would be some noticeable effect on the Japanese industry. In addition to all of the examples in the video, Funimation itself helped Gonzo finish production of the first season of Full Metal Panic!, knowing that they'd have the license to it once it did finish. Sure, maybe the amount of anime coming out per season wouldn't be cut in half or anything that drastic, but we'd be losing something.

Gigguk's point in the video about the industry's decline wasn't that it was necessarily dying, but that it certainly wasn't growing. Stagnation, to be precise. However, it's true that the industry is cyclical and the next big hit may just be over the horizon. Still, doesn't hurt to point out that yes, things are stagnant, now, whether or not they'll dip or pick up in the future.

And yes, everyone should show their support however they can! Don't want to pay? Stream legally! Can't give up fansubs or high-quality rips? Just spread the word: share this video with people, or just let others know about their legal options so they can choose for themselves.

edited 23rd Feb '12 8:22:30 AM by IllConstruct

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Nah, I'll just torrent.

"Hey you! Nano-something or other!"

I think saying that something like Rebuild or FMA was created with a Western Audience 'in mind' is pushing it, but I do definitely believe that they have 'Western Influence', and that is really important to me.

That said, I haven't watched the video yet because this topic is such a deadhorse. Kinda just becomes the same thing over and over again.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

That's totally fine! All the video is asking that you don't actively try to prevent others from showing their support legally if that's what they want. You don't have to start a crusade to raise awareness of CR's existence or whatever, but, I guess, just don't get in the way of those who do support it. I mean, honestly, that's just a waste of effort :P

Fair enough. However, if you do watch the video, he makes a point about the Trigun movie, which was produced solely because of its popularity outside of Japan. That's actually pretty impressive, as the original series was a big flop in Japan when it first aired. Now, the quality of said movie is questionable, but the very fact that it was made in the first place is nothing to scoff at.

edited 23rd Feb '12 9:28:36 AM by IllConstruct

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I think the best example would be Big O, whose second season was produced by Adult Swim.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

There are people who do that?

edited 23rd Feb '12 9:49:11 AM by Gilphon

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

I totally want to buy the Rebuild BD-DV Ds, but I need to get a Blu-ray player first.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

I think that's the online equivalent of The Aggressive Drug Dealer.

Personally, I think the current decline has more to do with the economic recession than anything else.

Anime consumers have joined the ranks of the unemployed, so have little to no money to support the industry with. That's certainly my case.

Once jobs become available again, you'll see it all pick up.

Till then, expect shorter series with lower quality dubs.

It seems to me there are 5 main factors causing this idea that Japan's animation industry is in decline.

Firstly, it is true that moë has come to fill a bigger share than ever of the industry's output, because it is a reliable cash cow. This is a combination of Japan's culture of cute and a growing demographic of adults who seem locked out of marriage prospects, and look back on their high school days with longing. (Yui's ditzyness is part of the her moë appeal, but it also allows her lack of ambition to resonate with those with little career prospects.)

Secondly and linked to that, a lot of Western fans can't stand moë, which I can understand (I enjoyed K-On, but in part because it's so calculated for moë feel that it seems at times like a parody, and I don't care for Hidamari Sketch). But too often they confuse "what I like" with "what mainstream audiences like" and conclude that the industry is pursuing a small niche of hardcore otaku, unaware that the Super Robot Genre is hardly more mainstream in its appeal. (Cowboy Bebop keeps coming up as an example of what the industry should be doing, but that is 1) a good show that does not come up often in any industry 2) a show that appeals to quite a narrow segment of (mostly Western) fans.

Thirdly, Western fans got in the nineties something that cannot be repeated: a big shake-up of the industry following the success of Neon Genesis Evangelion and a few other things. Quite simply, there was an unlocking of creativity, a dam breaking in a sense, and anyone who grew up at that time felt something that can't happen again. See: jphinano.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/the-good-old-days-of-anime-arent-comparable-to-today

Fourthly, 2010 was just a bad year, with few new and innovative series on offer. 2011 was a big improvement. This happens, random distribution is not always even.

Fifthly, it's very tempting to tie the decline of this industry with the undeniable problems of the country as a whole. The economy is stagnant, and the politicians are locked in a system that makes reform very difficult. But this industry is in an unusual position to escape those problems; they make it hard to get capital (hence the tiny budgets compared to American studios), but this is an industry that has to show some creativity to prosper, sclerotic management or shareholders need not be tied to the writers, and it can turn to Western markets in a way not every sector of the economy can.

That's my thinking on this.

A blog that gets updated on a geological timescale.

I still believe its sort of a 'rising tide carries all boats' deal when it comes to the importation and consumption of anime in America. Having DBZ, Pokemon, and Yugioh hit big one after the other really spurred interest in general for Japanese anime here.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

There is a decline in American Anime? I honestly did not know.

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Well, on the other hand, there's an upswing in Animesque works, so...

But I'm with Hydra: We're in the middle of a recession, so of course people aren't buying as much. The fact that the last couple years haven't had the highest quality anime either is just bad luck.

Yes but wasn't the peak of American anime consumption somewhere between 2004-2006? Before the recession I mean.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

By last couple years you mean 2009-2010, right? Because 2011 was an excellent year, both in critical acclaim, and in sales.

Assuming that sales are directly proportional to profits, (in other words, there were no unforseen cost increases for development), this was one of the most successul years ever.

edited 23rd Feb '12 2:59:18 PM by Ever9