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Very bad snowclone New Crowner: 02/15/12: Token Deity get usage counts

 51 Marq FJA, Mon, 13th Feb '12 10:51:27 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
[up] Okay, fair point.

BTW, we're supposed to leave the crowner running for at least three days, right?
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 52 shimaspawn, Mon, 13th Feb '12 10:52:36 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yes, we are. Otherwise I would have called it by now.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 53 Marq FJA, Mon, 13th Feb '12 10:54:55 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if it was just three days or a whole week. We really need a stickied thread or a guidelines page that codifies the typical (but reasonably flexible) procedure(s) for the various kinds of crowners here.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 54 shimaspawn, Mon, 13th Feb '12 11:21:58 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Three days or until there's consensus. Sometimes they need a little more time.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 55 lu 127, Mon, 13th Feb '12 11:25:39 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Do we have a trope about the stereotypical portrayal of deities (ex. a white male)? Basically, the opposite of this trope.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
"God looks like people in my culture/ethnic/nationality group" is so common as to be barely worth mentioning.

 57 Marq FJA, Mon, 13th Feb '12 11:37:26 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
You might be looking for Grandpa God, the subversion of which is part of the trope's reason for existence according to its description.

edited 13th Feb '12 11:37:55 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 58 lu 127, Mon, 13th Feb '12 11:45:08 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
[up] That seems like it. Thank you.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 59 Best Of, Wed, 15th Feb '12 5:56:48 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
With Mod Hat On
Crowner locked.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 60 Marq FJA, Wed, 15th Feb '12 6:13:33 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Okay, current suggestions for alternate names: God Is Not A White Male, Divine Token Minority, and Alternate Deity Appearance Interpretation.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 61 Septimus Heap, Wed, 15th Feb '12 6:23:54 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Created the alt titles crowner here with a few of the suggestions there.

 62 Marq FJA, Thu, 16th Feb '12 9:59:00 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Any new name suggestions that any of you think are better than the current ones? Just checking, that's all.

edited 16th Feb '12 9:59:10 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
Why "token"? That word has many definitions, notably "Done for the sake of appearances or as a symbolic gesture" and "as a matter of form only; nominal", and the trope doesn't fit any of them.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 64 shimaspawn, Thu, 16th Feb '12 7:33:50 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Because the trope has NOTHING to do with Tokens or Minorities but people keep trying to make the title more misleading.

edited 16th Feb '12 7:34:09 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I don't like Divine Token Minority. This trope really does not have much to do with any of the token tropes. If you had a movie with an all black cast and a black God, it would still be this trope, but they wouldn't be a token minority there.

Why "token"? That word has many definitions, notably "Done for the sake of appearances or as a symbolic gesture" and "as a matter of form only; nominal", and the trope doesn't fit any of them.

Those definitions describe this trope exactly!

It's a trope about casting God as a minority for the sake of appearance, or as a symbolic gesture. It's making God a minority as a token gesture.

If there's a clear reason for making God a minority, I would even say that it doesn't count as this trope. This is just about having a minority God for the sake of appearing not racist, or, in other words, for the sake tokenism.

I like "God is not ___" for a name, since this trope is about playing with people's conceptions of how God will look

edited 16th Feb '12 7:52:26 PM by abk0100

The trope description does not agree.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
"Done badly, it comes across as an Anvilicious attempt at generating liberal guilt, and a particularly extreme use of the Magical Negro trope."

I don't know, that seems like exactly what I was talking about.

That's only when it's done badly, though.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Still, if the creators of a movie specifically make sure not to cast God as a white man, and there's no in-story justification for it, it's tokenism.

But half (more? when this is "done well" anyway) of the time there is some reason God is black (or whatever).
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Is that true?

Just going through the Film section, every example besides 2 has a minority God just for the sake of having a minority God. (Baggar Vance and Major League are the ones I'm not including)

edit: and going trough the TV section, about 7 have no justification, and the rest are just people discussing the trope.

edited 16th Feb '12 8:24:54 PM by abk0100

"Done well, it can be a subtle and humorous take on discrimination."

Having a title that refers specifically to the trope being "done badly" is... bad.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
I'd say that doing this trope "badly" is just the most basic way to play this trope.

If there's a problem, it's just the fact that the description is worded the way it is.

Changing the description from "sometimes there is a good reason for the deity to be black (etc), but sometimes that is nominal" to "the deity is black (etc) and that is nominal" is a pretty major shift in meaning.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Alternative Titles: Token Deity
15th Feb '12 6:22:41 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
The reason we are renaming this trope is to stop the misconception that this trope is exclusively about a god not being white and/or male.

This trope is about a deity portrayed as a different race or gender than their standard portrayal for example the Abrahamic god as a black woman or the Hindu Goddess Shiva being a white male.

This trope is NOT restricted to the Judeo-Christian God. Names must be able to cover ALL deities from ALL religions.
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