The Constructive Criticism Thread

thinks for pointing that out. I had to look up the words for a few to get the basic understanding of it. Also, that's ok I guess, could suggest some alternative ways to get my work critique in a more faster and easier fashion? I'm not the kind of person who has to wait months on end to get a review some how.

MIA

also, my screenplays done just so you know. is it still his turn or is he busy?

MIA

It's still his turn. The forum just isn't that busy right now.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

ok then

MIA

@The Aphid: I just found this thread, so I started reading this evening. I've gotten to the end of Chapter 5, and my immediate reaction is, like your other critique said, the disparity between the language the characters would use and the narration is striking and somewhat disconcerting; a boy who doesn't know "hi" or "sorry" sure isn't going to know "turgid". The rest of my background: what I know of Pokemon is what I've picked up by Pop-Cultural Osmosis: that each one has an particular attack type, that they evolve, and that they have names that are largely descriptive. So I'm reading this blind. Also, despite being way out of the target demographic for YA lit, I do still read and enjoy it.

So far I'm rather liking it. Your plotting is solid (aside from what was the deal with the non-test at the beginning — the buried alive one. I never figured out what the researcher was waiting for or what reaction he wanted.) The escape wasn't too easy nor too far-fetched in difficulty. (Nice touch that he deduced that the long stretch of hallway with no hallways to the left was probably an outside wall!)

I also really like your cast; you've got a good mix of abilities and types, and you're fleshing them out well and making the relationships between them realistically complex. (Another nice bit was Arden trying to warn him about the girls and not being able to get him to see; in keeping with a prepubertal kid with no social experience at all.)

This is short, but I would like to get a couple more chapters read tonight, among the other stuff I need to do. More later, ok?

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

may I add, the dialogue, well for personally, can choppy at parts but the rest are good. maybe it's how I'm reading it so could be me. (and this is coming from someone who sucks balls on dialogue)

edited 1st Dec '16 4:29:14 PM by ewolf2015

MIA

*ahem*

edited 18th Dec '16 12:03:53 PM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

I'll PM Aphid. Their posting history shows they last posted four days ago, albeit in a different part of the forum, with a mention that they need to conserve data. If they don't reply back by... I'll say the end of the day Tuesday, their turn will be ended.

Although to be honest, I'm not sure how much of this slowness can be attributed to Aphid's absence, or finals/the holidays.

EDIT: PMed.

edited 18th Dec '16 1:07:24 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

No response from Aphid, Inigo's up. I presume you're around?

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

I am, but I'm very likely going to be busy until tomorrow night. My apologies.

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

The interface says: "Oh, good. Inigo Montoya is about to settle this thing." That's about right, sorry for the wait. Here it is: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Syg6LlcrdGVjE0N1Jlc1hPbzg/view?usp=sharing

The text ends mid-sentence. It's not actually the end of what I've written, but I am still too unsatisfied with the rest to share it.

edited 24th Dec '16 1:03:41 AM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

Obviously, tell me about anything that bothers you, anything that doesn't sound right. But beyond that, the main thing I'd like you to do is to try and describe Jane's and Alex' personalities, and speculate about their backgrounds. I want to see if I'm dropping the right clues, giving the reader the right impressions.
Please note that having reviewed Chapter 1 back in August is not a requirement for participating now. In fact, getting a fresh look at this will probably be useful.
Have fun and many thanks

edited 24th Dec '16 1:13:25 AM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

Ok, I'm only on page one, but, wow. I am very impressed with your writing style. I was into your character before I knew it was happening. I cant wait to finish this.

I was wondering if anybody was interested in looking over Muffet The Mom, an Undertale fanfic I'm working on.

edited 24th Dec '16 5:48:52 PM by BiggerBen

Yeah, add yourself to the end of the waitlist and we'll look at it when it's your turn. Please note that anybody who isn't familiar with Undertale who judges your fanfic here will be reading it blind and treating it as though it were original fiction.

edited 24th Dec '16 5:56:55 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

@De Marquis: Thanks for the encouragement, though I'm worried it will be very hard for my work to sustain such high expectations over 22 pages...
IOW: I can't wait for you to finish it either

edited 25th Dec '16 2:49:11 PM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

And a Merry Christmas to every reviewer in this thread who is not offended by my wishing them a Merry Christmas.

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

OK, the first nine pages which tell the story from Jane's point of view are excellent. I wouldnt change much. She is a very engaging character with a unique way of expressing the point of view of a typical teenage girl. However, the next section, told from Alex's point of view, is less successful for me. I dont find Alex as engaging a character. In particular her style of communication (her "voice" as it were) isn't as unique as Jane's nor does she come across as a teenage girl particularly. You could gender flip her and make her 25 and it wouldn't matter that much. So I think that the main issue for you right now is how spruce her up.

Comparing the two character's introductory paragraphs, I notice some differences. The very first thing we learn from Jane is her crush on her physics teacher, which comes across as self-consciously immature. In other words, even though she is talking to us about Mr. Menzies, we are really learning about her. The first thing we learn from Alex is... I'm not sure. She skips around telling us about Mrs. Smith, the other girls, her perceptions about Jane, etc. There's less self-awareness and less of a unifying theme. I get the impression that she is some sort of juvenile delinquent, with some emphasis on sexuality, but it isn't clear enough to form an impression of the character. I cant even tell if she is happy to be there.

I suggest that you could improve your work by giving Alex one or two defining personality traits and filter everything through that. You should decide how she feels about things: is she cynical, angry, paranoid, self-satisfied, optimistic, something else? I cant help thinking that there are a lot of possibilities here. How would a reformed juvenile delinquent (prostitute?) see an upper middle class boarding school for girls? The opportunity of a lifetime? A flock of sheep waiting to be fleeced? An alien environment she doesn't know how to navigate? Decide on what her main perspective is and then rewrite the section.

I'm up to page 11. More to come.

Merry Christmas to you too.

If that's okay with you, I am going to wait until you have reached at least the end of page 14 (and of chapter 1) before responding. The answer to most of your concerns/questions is simply "Read on"; also, I'd have to give you massive spoilers in order to address them.
Thanks again for doing this

edited 26th Dec '16 2:47:32 PM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

Page 21. I had a lot of trouble parsing the two girls' conversation, having had to read it twice just to be sure I knew who was talking when. Obviously, they share some sort of secret, but I cant tell what it is. They are clearly engaged in some sort of verbal fencing, but I am probably too dense to follow it. Anyway- I didn't read anything that changed my opinion about Jane and Alexandra. Here's Jane's first sentence when the two girls sit down to talk:

"Well, I'd say that was a resounding success, Alexandra," I said in a triumphant tone that you can only use in praise of other people's success.

What I get out of that is a sense that Jane really does feel proud of her efforts to help the other girl fit in, but also is aware that she doesn't consider herself to have fitted in all that well. That's a pretty complex and nuanced sentence. It's also written in a sort of melodramatic self-mocking tone that I have heard many teenage girls use.

Here's Alex's first sentence: She described a half circle around me. "So, Jane, you're... like me then?"

Not much going on there, unless I'm missing something. I mean, yes, it gives the first hint that they share a secret, but it doesn't tell me very much about what kind of person Alexandra is. You don't even give us her facial expression. The overall effect is one of emotional disengagement, which may be the effect you are going after, but if so, then I needed more hints.

I'm not saying that any of this is bad, mind you, even if you had only written Alex's point of view in the work it would still be better than average, it's just that Jane's characterization is so good that Alexandra was a bit of a let-down.

Just my two cents, feel free to ignore it.

Um, hello! I added myself to the waiting list. Just wanted to notify that. Also, I really dig this thread. Ciao!

Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

I've had issues with my laptop which essentially turned it into a desktop computer for a week, but that is resolved now. I'll get back to you tomorrow, my apologies for the delay.

edited 3rd Jan '17 12:40:21 PM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

Thanks, that means a lot. I've put an enormous amount of work into those passages. Well, she's a few years older than Jane (she's 20, Jane is 17, though Jane doesn't know that). But yes, I've struggled with this too. The thing is, Alex isn't supposed to be an engaging character, and is exactly supposed to be a chameleon with few defining characteristics of her own (later in chapter 3, Jane explicitly alludes to that by asking her "Which color do you turn in a box lined with mirrors?", to which Alex replies "What do the mirrors need to see?"). But such a character can easily come across as poorly written, as a cardboard cut-out, and I'm not sure what I can do to signal to the reader that it isn't so. This is probably where your feedback will be most valuable. This concerns me. It wasn't my intent at all to imply she has a crush on Menzies. She finds his goofy antics occasionally funny, but that's all. I am going to give you something of a spoiler, but Jane is unlikely to be "hot for" any male teacher. She's going to fall in love with Alex. That's what the first half of the book is about.
Tell me how I can fix this. You may be giving me too much credit here and underestimating my authorial laziness. I wasn't very smart about this, I just used Alex's part to continue the narration where Jane left off, while slipping in a few comments here and there that ought to tell the reader about Alex's mindset. Also, I needed Alex to give the readers a minimal description of Jane, because she's not about to do that herself. That she has less self-awareness is definitely true and is emphasised later in the story. But, see, that's the point! Does Alex feel anything? Correct answer bolded (well, mostly). Alex is a practical girl, and who doesn't want to attend a prestigious school? But that doesn't mean you shouldn't also try and have some fun!

edited 4th Jan '17 1:01:25 AM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

.*sigh* That definitely rings true, it was the number 1 complaint readers had when I submitted chapter 1 in August. I seemed to have fixed that chapter well, but clearly old habits die hard... I'll add more speech tags. That's exactly it, though I'm surprised you zeroed in on that line, rather than lines 374-6 ("I was like you, in the same position as you are now, 5 years ago. And I'm trying to make it so that you don't go down the same path as I did.”), where she says so explicitly.
By the way, what did you think of lines 371-382 and 385-392? Can you see what's going on and do you think I handled it well?

I'll work something out. Jane just isn't very good at describing other people's expression (she herself often comes across as unemotional or robot-like), but this is going too far. I also wanted to ask: what did you think of Jane's writing in this part? At the beginning of chapter 1, you get a well put together Jane at her most sophisticated. How does "raw", tired and emotional Jane compare?

edited 4th Jan '17 1:51:13 AM by InigoMontoya

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."

Thanks again for helping out :)

"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is 0x29a."