Cut examples: Ron The Death Eater

I went and looked at this page recently on a whim, and it seemed both hostile and whiny. It's also not really a trope and has no real criteria for what counts as 'unjustly hated' enough. Also, on top of that, there's flat misuse, such as the inclusion of Danzo from Naruto, who is a victim of flanderization if anything. He is, after all, an unrepentant villain in the series, even if sympathetic.

I suggest we cut all the examples and lock the page and leave this as merely an exampleless fanspeak page.

I'm having trouble distinguishing this from Character Derailment / Fanfic. Also, given that the majority of examples are in fact not from Harry Potter, I doubt that "Ron the Death Eater" is an established term for this phenomenon.

edited 22nd Dec '11 1:42:27 AM by Spark9

The redirect Paint the Hero Black also seems much better to me, though I was more concerned with getting rid of the examples than the title.

This is considered the counterpoint of Draco in Leather Pants, and is just as needed. You can argue that both are a subset of Character Derailment, but unless you can get a consensus on tossing both there is little point in eliminating either.

Considered by who?

We can worry about the name later, can't we? Is there any reason to keep examples like these?

As mentioned, the same reason we keep Draco in Leather Pants. Indeed, this is the inversion of that very trope.

I say keep it but remove the complaining. Also there are many examples that actually aren't heroes at all.

The content on another page is not what we are discussing here. If anything, if that page has similar bad or whiny examples, those ought to be cut as well. Either way, the examples here are bad and they'll probably just stay bad. An article like this invites those kinds of examples.

Precisely; pages are judged on their own merit, and not on the merit of whatever related pages can be found.

That said, I'm not seeing a meaningful distinction between this and Character Derailment / Fanfic, so I would suggest moving the good examples to that page and turning this into a redirect.

Ron the Death Eater is a specific type of Derailment-it is portraying canonically good/heroic characters as much worse than they actually are.

edited 22nd Dec '11 6:50:18 AM by KSonik

But there are examples on this page that mention characters who were most certainly not heroic. The aforementioned Danzo example comes to mind.

If nothing else, a good cleanup is required here at the very least.

I already pointed out the non-heroic character examples.

I seem to recall that there was once a trope that involved fanfic depictions of evil characters becoming even more evil (often outlandishly so, like if Darth Vader started randomly eating kittens for fun). And that, when it was cut, examples were shunted onto this trope page.

I would think that cleanup would be necessary before cutting; whining shouldn't be tolerated, nor should Fan Wank, but it is a legit fanwork trope and can be documented.

As for rename... considering that I don't think fanfic fandom itself (man, that's weird to type out) uses this term, I think we could swap to its redirect.

I personally don't see why we need the examples on Draco in Leather Pants either. Both pages can work just fine as definitions.

I agree.

I also agree.

I disagree.

To be honest, I don't care that much about whether the examples stay or not - in my dream world, all of these kinds of tropes would be definition-only, but this one doesn't seem to be that bad. I'm merely arguing that the claim that this is "just as needed as Draco in Leather Pants" is not really an argument in favor of keeping the examples, since that page is more-or-less the same as this one as far as worthiness goes.

Yes. Furthermore, DILP appears to be an established term, whereas RTDE is not.

Anyway, I agree with the proposal.

I also agree.

RTDE is named for the tendency of fans to make Ron into a bad guy.

Anyways, I've thought of both DILP and RTDE as an effective dyad of subtropes under Misaimed Fandom, rather than just fanfics. (Under Misaimed Fandom, DILP of course has to do with a character's vices being ignored or unduly justified by fans, while RTDE is the inverse: a character's vices are blown out of proportion with no sense of context or circumstances laid out, and their good traits are disregarded.)

Character Derailment is a supertrope. Nothing wrong with that.

In any case, the vast majority of examples were unsourced anyway, so I went and cleaned them up.

Misaimed Fandom? But some villains listed in Draco in Leather Pants are intentionally sympathetic.

^^ Yes, but the thing is, some fans are too forgiving of the villains as a result.

So is RTDE a fanfic only trope now?