Iraqi Government faces collapse one day after the Yanks leave...

Iraqi authorities have issued an arrest warrant for Vice-President Tariq al-Hashemi for having alleged links to terrorism

However, there is a suspicion this warrant is politically because al-Hashemi is a Sunni Muslim trying to make it in a Shia Muslim country.

In response to this warrant, the Al-Iraqiya parliamentary bloc have boycotted the cabinet.

The president of Iraqi Kurdistan has called for talks between the Sunnis, the Shias and the Kurds to prevent the unity government from collapsing.

edited 20th Dec '11 4:24:57 AM by whaleofyournightmare

And now we face the sad truth that Iraq needed a tyrant.

Not neccesary tyrant, but you can't just "bring " democracy into a nation. You need to cultivate it. A nation with little to no experience with democratic system has hard time adjusting to democracy.

You can't have folks that hate each other ruling each other, it's a recipe for disaster: As most intensely divided places, the best case scenario for Iraq was to turn into a confederacy: Each tribe gets to rule its own chunk of crappy tribal desert homeland, and the central government gets infrastructure and foreign affairs... Assuaging the fears that the Sunni plan to rule the Shia or vice versa... And the Kurds should have been the base and core of the new Iraqi Army. That way they'd have been too busy destabilizing the Kurd part of neighboring countries to effectively oppress and antagonize anyone in Iraq. But that stuff was not done, so as soon as the Americans keeping the whole mess in place get the Hell away, the Iraqis gleefully get back to their tribal infighting.

Truth be told, the Americans didn't stop them either: US troops were like a control rod, slowing the meltdown, but the tribal hate machine kept going anyway.

{Tom, that's not what was said. This post was deleted for being shit-stirring. —Madrugada}

edited 20th Dec '11 5:32:53 AM by Madrugada

I never said anything of the kind, I said there were fears the warrant was politically motivated rather than the VP having any links to terrorism. However, there are real fears of sectarian violence returning to Iraq.

Also, there are rumours of the President of Iraq, who is Shia btw, is turning into a dictator and repressing the Sunni minority because Saddam was a Sunni.

And what happens if pray tell the warrant is legit? The suspect has ties? You'll be looking awfully silly and judgemental. (Not to mention impatient.)

Then I'll say that the warrant was legitimate, but I haven't really said "OMGZ, THE SUNNI LEADER IN A SHIA COUNTRY IS INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES". All I've said is that certain people in Iraq think this warrant is best shady and at worse an attempt of oppression.

Please don't try to provoke a fight Major Tom.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:31:42 AM by Madrugada

I'm trying not to. But threads like these always turn into the same "we never should have done X" echo chamber stuff that shunts out all discussion and opposing viewpoints.

The thread opened with a civil discussion of what happened. No blame, name calling, no overblown comparisons. Your first post was an indictment of the previous posters and a misrepresentation of what they said so you could make an inflammatory comparison to Somalia.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:35:14 AM by Madrugada

Anyway, so far, there hasn't been any independent confirmation on the charges and the VP is currently in Iraqi Kurdistan so he can't get arrested anyway.

And that makes my conclusions completely false?

When you have stuff like this...

...as the opening discussion beyond the first post we both know this will not stay civil nor be real discussion in the long run.

That said, we can stay on topic if both parts of that stay out of the equation both the echo chambering I warned about and stuff I said. (Unfortunately, I personally don't think that can happen on topics like this.)

Edit:

Then it is possible this whole thing is just rumormongering from someone in the international political arena.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:55:36 AM by MajorTom

So Iraq isnt a stable Democracy???!?!?!?!?!?!!?

So the Neo-Cons where wrong all this time??

I cant beleive it!!!!

edited 20th Dec '11 8:46:33 AM by Baff

Nah, the warrant is legitimate, just no one can say if the actual charges are or not.

Well if the charges aren't legitimate, then it all points back to Maliki as being a moron, not the failure of Iraqi democracy itself.

No, the Sunnis say it points to Maliki being a dictator out to silence people. The VP has also been extremely critical of Maliki.

Hence why I said there are fears its politically motivated.

Aka him being a moron.

I think only two words are needed for this whole thing: "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

This is all a result of huge missteps the American occupation forces took in the early days of the war. Instead of keeping the institutions of the Iraqi State intact, we threw the baby out with the bathwater and got rid of anything even somewhat associated with Baath, even though connections through Baath were often just a pragmatic way of advancement and in Iraqi society often didn't represent ideological loyalty, and pretty much handed the keys to the castle over to the Shia. Instead of preserving the Iraqi state, we sowed the seeds for reprisals of reprisals and the inevitable collapse that is befalling Iraq now.

Having the Iranians, Syrians and Saudi Arabs surrounding the country won't be helping the fledgling democracy, either.

edited 20th Dec '11 11:08:20 AM by TheBatPencil

Wrong: each of those three countries will have a vote on the future of Iraq. See, democracy! ^^

edited 20th Dec '11 11:13:53 AM by RufusShinra

Well this is a total and complete surprise. I can't believe this happened. Wow.

Shoulda given the Kurds their own country, that'd avert half the problem.

There's really not a way this could've ended well. I'm not sure if this is the worst case scenario, but it's close to it.

Sad, really. But not unexpected.